Masters, Slaves and Scripture: A Template for Christian Social Engagement?
Posted by Dave Miller in Bible & Theology, Church & Missions, News & Culture
Every time a national election takes place, American Christians engage in the debate once again – just how involved should Christians be in secular politics. At this site, David Rogers (and others – me included) has written frequently exploring these issues and some “lively” debates have followed. Some say that Christians have a responsibility to engage our culture and be salt and light. Others warn us against allowing political pursuits to distract us from our gospel task. It is, they remind us, the gospel that changes lives, not power politics. And both sides in this debate can marshal scriptures that support their viewpoints.
According to a good friend of mine who has extensive international experience, Americans are unique in our patriotism. Other people love their countries, but Americans have a passion about our country that most other nations do not have, according to my friend. We love our nation. More than that, we tend to see the redemption and restoration of our nation as a high spiritual priority. But is that justified? It is right?
Since we are biblicists, we look to the Bible for answers to all questions – even ones involving secular politics. At SBC Voices, I have been writing a series of posts about gender roles in scripture. In the course of those studies, I began to examine teachings on masters and slaves in the scriptures – I guess I am easily distracted.
But I believe that an examination of the biblical attitudes toward slavery may serve as a template for our involvement in political and social issues. Slavery was a social issue in the era of the Early Church. The prevailing culture thought it was normal and natural for people who were able to own slaves. How did the church respond? How did the church balance political advocacy and gospel proclamation?
I would make the following observations. I would point out that these are, in fact, observations. They are not settled conclusions. I am putting forward what I see in Scripture. I’ve not done the kind of extensive historical or even exegetical study that would authorize me to be dogmatic. But I will share with you my observations for your examination and discussion.
1) Slavery is always a heinous social ill.
Let’s agree that slavery is not a good thing. The Bible never sanctions or promotes slavery. In the OT Law, slavery was regulated and limited, much as polygamy. Polygamy was not part of God’s original intent in Creation, but in the Law, God regulated and limited the practice, putting obligations on the husbands to treat his wives with basic decency. In a similar way, slavery is not eliminated but is limited. Laws are put forward which prevent masters from oppressing or mistreating their slaves. God also instituted the Sabbath years and Jubilees to free slaves.
I think we would all agree that slavery is a moral offense. For one human being to claim ownership over another is not a biblical ideal. Racial slavery, the kind that was practiced in America for centuries was a blot on the moral history of our nation. Good men with great political ideas had an inexcusable blind spot – they thought it was okay, even godly, for white men to own black men. I was happy to stand at the SBC years ago and publicly repent of the history of racism and the defense of slavery that was such a part of the early history of our denomination.
The slavery in the Roman world was perhaps a little difference. When a nation conquered another, it often enslaved the people of that nation. People who could not pay their debts were sold into slavery. Whatever the reasons for the problem, slavery was a real issue in the NT church.
As soon as God extended his sovereign grace to a slave and a slave owner, the church had a problem. If two men were brothers in Christ, could one own the other? How was the church going to handle this terrible social ill?
The question is not whether slavery was wrong. The question was how much energy the church should have focused on ending the practice in the Roman Empire.
2) The church did not focus its energies on the institution of slavery.
Paul did not start a movement to end slavery in the Roman Empire. He did not go from city to city organizing slaves and lobbying for their freedom. He established churches and proclaimed the life-changing gospel. Had it been the desire of God that the church focus its energies on societal and cultural transformation, it would seem that slavery would have been a good place for the church to start.
The church had slaves. The church had slave owners. But never once did Paul or other NT writers command that the church seek to change that societal structure, nor did Paul even command Christian masters to free their Christian slaves. If the church is supposed to be a bastion of cultural engagement, it seems odd that the NT did not command that in this instance.
Paul had a perfect opportunity to make a political point when he wrote to Philemon on behalf of Onesimus. Paul did not command Philemon to free his slave. He suggested it, cajoled perhaps. But there was no moral command.
Ephesians 6:5-9 Slaves, obey your earthly masters with fear and trembling, with a sincere heart, as you would Christ, not by the way of eye-service, as people-pleasers, but as servants of Christ, doing the will of God from the heart, rendering service with a good will as to the Lord and not to man, knowing that whatever good anyone does, this he will receive back from the Lord, whether he is a slave or free. Masters, do the same to them, and stop your threatening, knowing that he who is both their Master and yours is in heaven, and that there is no partiality with him.
Slaves were not commanded to organize to end slavery, but to be the best slaves they could be – to honor Christ. This is not to justify slavery, but to point out that the focus was on the work of the gospel. Paul reinforces this basic truth in Colossians 3:22-25 , 1 Timothy 6:1-2, and Titus 12:9-10. Peter says almost the same thing:
1 Peter 2:18-21 Servants, be subject to your masters with all respect, not only to the good and gentle but also to the unjust. For this is a gracious thing, when, mindful of God, one endures sorrows while suffering unjustly. For what credit is it if, when you sin and are beaten for it, you endure? But if when you do good and suffer for it you endure, this is a gracious thing in the sight of God. For to this you have been called, because Christ also suffered for you, leaving you an example, so that you might follow in his steps.
Peter focuses on a fact that we do not often want to admit. It is a blessing to suffer here on earth for godly purposes. Blessed are those who are persecuted! Servants were to focus on being good servants and to know that if they suffered wrongs here on earth for the glory of God they would be rewarded in heaven.
This statement has horrendous potential to be misinterpreted, but it bears observation anyway. Paul, Peter, and other Christians leaders showed little concern for the social ill of slavery and demonstrated almost no concern for social transformation. It just did not seem to matter to them.
4) Christians were told to improve things when they could.
Paul makes a powerful point in 1 Corinthians 7 – a passage that primarily addresses marriage.
1 Co 7:17–24 Only let each person lead the life that the Lord has assigned to him, and to which God has called him. This is my rule in all the churches. Was anyone at the time of his call already circumcised? Let him not seek to remove the marks of circumcision. Was anyone at the time of his call uncircumcised? Let him not seek circumcision. For neither circumcision counts for anything nor uncircumcision, but keeping the commandments of God. Each one should remain in the condition in which he was called. Were you a slave when called? Do not be concerned about it. (But if you can gain your freedom, avail yourself of the opportunity.) For he who was called in the Lord as a slave is a freedman of the Lord. Likewise he who was free when called is a slave of Christ. You were bought with a price; do not become slaves of men. So, brothers, in whatever condition each was called, there let him remain with God.
His main point is that Christians should remain in the situation they were in at the time of their redemption. If one was married, stay married. If one was single, stay single. If one was a slave, remain a slave. But in verse 21, Paul tells them that if they had the opportunity to become free, they should take it. In other words, if there was a chance to improve things, take it.
We have the opportunity in America to improve things through fulfilling our duties as citizens – voting and advocating righteous behavior. I believe we should take advantage of these opportunities and I believe Paul would agree. If you have the chance to make a difference, to improve things – do it!
But the focus of the church is the transformation which the gospel brings, not the imposition of Christian principles in government or society. Where we can, we should work to change things. But we must remember that the gospel is both our primary message and our overarching strategy.
5) The church is to focus on meeting the needs of the needy.
I am not saying we should ignore eleemosynary involvement. We are commanded to care for widows and orphans and to share with those in need. A church that does not have an active benevolence ministry is not obeying the scriptures. As we proclaim the gospel, we also meet the needs both of those in the Body and those to whom we preach. Feeding the hungry and clothing the poor is part of a gospel ministry, but the focus is always on the proclamation of God’s truth and the redemption of lost sinners to Christ.
Our goal is the gospel and discipleship – the true growth of the Church of Jesus Christ. We live in a sinful world, but this world is not our home. We are living “here” for the blessings we will receive “there”.
Processing the Data
There are two possibilities here that need to be considered:
1) I could be seeing Paul and Peter’s treatment of slavery wrongly. Maybe my observer is broken.
2) I could be drawing the wrong conclusions from what I have observed. The problem may not be the observations, but the interpretations of those observations. More specifically, maybe the slavery issue is not the template for social engagement that I believe it is.
But what I am seeing makes me believe that the NT church showed little concern for social justice and cultural transformation. They focused mostly on advancing the gospel and proclaiming God’s truth. They were not totally disengaged either. If someone could get free, could improve their social standing, Paul told them to do it. They did not seek suffering, but neither did they run from it.
Frankly, I am somewhat shocked at the New Testament church’s reaction to slavery. But it is what it is. The question is what the NT church’s reaction to slavery – both culturally and within the church – means for our involvement in politics and in social justice efforts.
My conclusion, at this point, is that the priority of the church must always be on the Great Commission. While we should take those opportunities we have to improve things in this world, the improvement of social structures and cultural standards is not a primary priority for the church.
I am uncomfortable saying that – so sh0w me where I’m getting it wrong.



It doesn’t seem that you are wrong, Dave.
I have found that we learn of the kingdom from where we are in life when we find Christ. Any movement from that point, other than out of the gutter, can have an effect on us or others and even the meaning of the gospel. Since we are talking about slaves and servants and I am a servant to my boss and the company, if I was promoted out of the place where God saved me and I was not ready the temptations would be greater and the testimony would send the wrong message. A lady in the Texas prison system had murdered her parents (I think) and was obviously saved on death row. She was interviewed by the local TV stations and there was no question that Jesus changed her life. The day prior to her scheduled death there was an appeal to President George Bush who had been the Governor of Texas. He denied the stay of execution and she was put to death. I pondered that and agreed because it would have flooded all the death rows in the nation with Christians.
For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this age, against spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places. Eph 6:12
No matter what our social standing we enter a battle the day we are saved. Like David, we have not proven the armor of the Master and we need to begin our fight with only what we have proven. Every man and woman begins the Christian life as a slave. It’s just that slaves don’t have to learn to be a slave first.
Interesting article Dave.
Here is perhaps Paul’s main method of social engagement:
Also, Paul lists enslavers among those who are sinners in need of a Savior in 1 Tim. 1:10. It would seem that he views the gospel as the source of true social justice. Perhaps now would be a good time to look up a summary of The City of God.
There is no doubt that the gospel should always take number one prioity in the life of a believer. Politics never ranks above it–not even once.
But
If a Christian is going to vote (and they should) there is never a justification** for voting for a pro-baby murder candiate in a race where that candidate could be in a position to help make abortion illegal (i.e. President, House or Senate). If, as is the case in many elections, there are two candidates and a Christian has certain convictions such as ending the war in Iraq or wanting to make it easier for the poor little Mexicans to cross the boarder (I can’t imagine how anyone could have such convictions and have the sense to get in out of the rain or stay in the lines in a coloring book, but hey…) and the anti-abortion candidate is anti-those things, then the Christian just has to swallow those convictions since there is nothing that is a higher priority than making baby-murder illegal which will take a president who will appoint anti-baby murder judges and representatives that will confirm them.
**There is one group that is an exception to this–they can legitimately vote politically liberal and be faithful to scripture (in other words, be conservative theologically). I will not identify the group but I ain’t in it and chances are, you ain’t either.
However, they can legitimately say “I voted for Obama and I am a theologically conservative Chritian”. Anyone else who voted for Obama can’t say that.
I have tried to respond to comments, folks, but WordPress seems to be losing my comments.
Hi JOE BLACKMON,
Here’s ANOTHER point of view that differs from your own:
“In the past, conservative Pro-Life groups have said and done little about abortion in private health insurance plans. To do so would have upset alliances with Big Business and other conservative activists opposed to government regulation of private companies. Instead, the focus was on government policies that often concerned a much smaller number of abortions or even matters only indirectly touching on abortion.
“In the health care debate, progressive pro-lifers took their conservative brethren to task for their historic silence on this issue and the sometimes twisted arguments they had to make on the heath care bill while avoiding the admission of their past silence. Groups now seem ready to make up for their past inaction.
The new Health Care law enhances the ability of states to restrict abortion in private plans. The Democratic-controlled state Legislature in Mississippi became the latest to prohibit insurance companies from offering plans that include abortion to be sold on the exchange. Federal law prohibits subsidies for abortions, but states also have the right to even prohibit the unsubsidized sale of abortion riders.”
So, JOE, looks like there might have been a conflict: conservatives didn’t speak up concerning restriction of abortion to do with PRIVATE ENTERPRISE ? I just learned about this.
Priorities? a ‘free market’profits vs. a’right to life’ conflict ?
What say you, Joe. What was going on there? I’m sure you can explain how the ‘conservative right Christians’ kept a silence so loud as to please big business. I can’t see the sense of what happened at all.
It smells of hypocrisy.
L’s
Let me get this straight–and you stop me where I’m wrong–Conservatives are hypocrites because they didn’t try to take abortion coverage away from health care plans?? Really? I mean, that is your “argument”.
The fact that token restrictions ON FUNDING were tacked on thanks to that traitor Stupad, er I mean Stupak does not mean that (a) abortions are not still hapening and (b) that there has been any significant drop in abortions. The bad guys did what was needed to get those few gutless sellout Socio-crats, I mean Democrats to sign off on the Health Care Bill that Americans DIDN’T want and Congress had NO RIGHT to pass.
Fact–abortion is still legal. Fact–anyone who claims to be a Christian that voted for pro-baby murder candidates is responsible for the infant murders that occur. Christians do not vote pro-baby murder.
Joe,
I think your comments are off topic and unhelpful. Now you have brought Christiane into an argument about the politics of abortion. I’m happy for your enthusiasm to protect the unborn. But I believe your comments are in violation of our standards.
Dave,
Your premise is correct as far as I can determine. I do believe that men and women of faith who diligently follow the faith-walk life will be placed from time to time in situations where they have opportunity to affect the culture.
However, the world can never be won nor reformed by social, political, or economic action. I do believe, however, that genuine Believers must do all within their power to reflect the course that most demonstrates one’s belief that Jesus is God and that God is Creator and Sustainer of life.
Well, JOE, it appears that when the chips were down, the ‘silence’ of conservative Christians on the issue of abortion in private health insurance plans was deafening.
To speak up would have upset political alliances with Big Business and other conservative activists opposed to government regulation of private companies. THE MAJORITY OF ABORTIONS BEING DONE WERE PAID FOR BY THESE PRIVATE COMPANIES.
Instead, the focus was on government policies that often concerned a much smaller number of abortions or even matters only indirectly touching on abortion.
Joe, when Christians buy into a political or economic policy (such as opposing government regulation of private health insurance abortion policies and practices);
then they can’t wipe the blood off of their hands so easily.
It was the DEMOCRATS who did something effective, JOE:
The new Health Care law enhances the ability of states to restrict abortion in private plans:
the Democratic-controlled state Legislature in Mississippi became the latest to prohibit insurance companies from offering plans that include abortion to be sold on the exchange.
People can’t do the one-issue voting thing anymore. You HAVE to look at everything involved in both parties.
JUST FOLLOW THE MONEY:
those private health insurance companies will lose a lot of ‘business’ (abortion income profits) now that the Health Care Law has made it easier for the states to restrict abortion in private plans.
Check it out, Joe, if you don’t believe me.
Of course, it will help if the states have Democratic leaders who aren’t afraid to stand up to the money guys. And we already have the good example of the Democratic legislature in Mississippi to prove that.
Do you think a Republican state legislature would stand up to the private health insurance companies on the abortion issue?
I don’t think so. Reason: GREED
Christians can vote their consciences. I intend to, after I educate myself on ALL of the issues that are pro-life.
Even now, the Republicans have instituted death-panels in Arizona under Gov. Jan Brewer. JOE, you have to do your homework, if you really care, and I know you do care.
Your political party can let you down.
Your Christian conscience won’t.
I just realized that I commented above ‘on-topic’. David will be pleased.
Dems made the necessary concessions on Health Care needed to get the bill passed—not because they were interested in limiting abortions. Don’t you DARE accuse me of having blood on my hands when you would fight tooth and nail to keep abortions legal and voted for a president who used his vote to deny health care to survivors of abortions. Further, you most certainly haven’t proven that tacking on your meaningless restrictions have done squat to affect the number of abortions performed or that women can still decide “Having this baby would be a hardship for me. I’m gonna have it cut up into little pieces and pulled out a chunk at a time.”
Again, no Christian votes for a pro-baby murder candidate. And, just in case my insult isn’t as obvious as I intend it to be, what I’m saying is voting for Obama, Pelosi, Reid, proves that a person is not a Christian.
…that women can’t still…
Morning, JOE.
Why were the ‘lambs’ silent?
Didn’t Christian people realize the profits private enterprise was making off of abortion plans ?
Didn’t Christian people understand how much MONEY these private companies stood to lose if the Health Care bill passed and state legislatures could act against them?
Homework, Joe. You’re smart. Follow the money.
If Christian people REALLY care, and many do, then they need to track down WHO IS MAKING PROFITS off of the deaths of the unborn, and they need to realize something:
private profits and private enterprise, unrestrained, may not be in the best interest of unborn children.
BE CAREFUL WHO YOU VOTE FOR, Joe-the-Wolf-Hunter.
Do your homework before you vote.
No wonder the private health insurance industry wanted Health Care defeated. No wonder.
Christiane / Joe
Just a thought from a non-political standpoint on the abortion issue so you don’t lose sleep or feel condemned by who you vote for in the future:
If 2,000,000 abortions take place, some believe that 2,000,000 babies return to heaven. This comes from what David mentioned regarding the 1st child that died between him and Bathsheba.
If we save 2,000,000 from abortion, what is the average percentage that would go to heaven then? I think it would be below 20%, if that much. Not good, especially when the stats on evangelism in SBC churches are in the single digits anyway. A person saved from abortion has less of a chance of hearing the gospel today than ever before.
This is not to approve abortion in any minute way, however, it is just to allow you peace of mind if abortion is completely legalized. I would rather abortion be aborted in the political realm.
Not that this post needs to go further off in a tangent but…
Christians have the obligation in a democratic republic to “speak to” their governments – something that Paul and the apostles simply did not have the ability to do. Yet it was the power of Christ and his followers which eventually released all Roman slaves in a bloodless coup. What is interesting though is that Paul furthers the Old Testament teaching AGAINST chattel slavery by writing 1 Timothy 1:10, noting that “enslavers” where on the same level as those practicing homosexuality.
The “slavery” approved by the Torah could best be described as “indentured servitude.” The person under obligation (usually because of debt) would be released like all in-debtors during the year of jubilee. The Bible specifically condemns “enslavers” – see 1 Timothy 1:10 – those who would kidnap or enslave people for whatever reason and bring them into multi-generational slavery. True slavery was abhorrent in Israel – for they were a people of slaves for 400 years in Egypt, with a whole book of the Bible given over to their freedom from slavery – Exodus. It was because of Israel’s unwillingness to release the poor from bondage and debt (thus never fully implementing the jubilee year) that they were further enslaved by foreign powers (notably Assyria, Babylon, Persia, Syria, Greece and Rome). In fact the theme of the entire Bible from Old to New is the freedom of slaves – the “form” of the Old Testament (Passover, Sabbaths) were all about freeing slaves from Egypt – the “form” of the New (Christ on the cross, “the Lamb of God”) freeing slaves from sin so that they could walk in a new life in freedom, being “passed by” God’s wrath to walk in God’s grace.
As to the party thing. I don’t believe that God chooses “sides” – 1)His is not a democratic republic but an unapologetic monarchy – no one will vote in the Kingdom of God, for only one has a vote – Him 2)Only He does support acts of righteousness and desires His followers to do the same when given opportunity. While I do believe that our primary mission is reaching the lost for Christ and expanding the kingdom ala Paul and the apostles, I also believe with our singular opportunity to speak to government that it is an obligation to do so. History is replete with Christian isolationism from culture with horrible, horrible results. And for the record Dave, that is why I think that the ERLC is a good thing – I frankly do not have the time to get on a plane and go to D.C. to affect anything in Washington – but Southern Baptists do.
Christiane – something my grandfather told me about why he was not a Democrat. As his grandfather had fought in the Civil War for the Union, my grandfather said he would never join a party of rebels, slavers, or segregationists. In his opinion, Democrats are just too willing to stand on the sidelines and support immoral positions of human depravity – case in point, abortion.
Rob
Rob:
I think you have a great sentence here:
History is replete with Christian isolationism from culture with horrible, horrible results”
Great thought well said. However I don’t agree with you that abortion is the prime example, nor do I think it equates with the Civil Rights movement in terms of Moral Compulsion to Redress.
I think abortion is very weighty matter, but has been misused by folks like Timothy George, Richard Land, Pressler and Jesse Helms to name a few.
David Gushee has strong position on abortion but his political calculus differs from the names above. Leadership of the SBC has failed in my opinion to navigate the political ethics and reality of the investigations of Karen Gormley and that is where the matter stands.
I sat in a lecture couple days ago by a woman PHD visitting from the U Michigan on the new political language of citizenship precipitated by sexual assault on African American Women during Civl War Reconstruction, roughly the six years following the War. It was very disturbing, but I think she has a point.
The rhetoric of Scripture, the imagery of Moses leaving Egypt, has more authentic resonance for working toward righteous ends calling on the name of Jesus, than the politics of abortion; which I am convinced was coopted by rightwing of the GOP for tax breaks.
To some degree you have a point. Republican Judge Frank Johnson of Alabama and my Grandfather Jordan had more integrity than the Democrat George Wallace. But Republican High ground was sabotaged by the Birch Society Right, inveighling into the Party with Reagan; though Reagn had his good points.
To take the conversation further you will have to read Steven Miller on Nixon, Graham and RAce and the Rise of the GOP and Marilynne Robinson’s Absence of Mind and Jill Lepore’s The Whites of their Eyes; and One More; Garry Wills American Christianities.
Whether you are humble enough to take a sincere suggestion from a Baptist progressive remains to be seen.
Sincerely, however; you have some decent instincts in these matters. Wish we could sit in the audience for a Charles Marsh presentation. Hope in God’s Grace maybe you and me and David Rogers can do that some time in the next three years or so.
Bruce Harp,
That is without a doubt the stupidest thing I’ve ever read in my entire life. I don’t mean just on a blog comment thread. I mean everything I’ve read from “I See Sam” when I was 4 years old through today. So abortion is ok because those babies go to heaven? I’m not even going to dignify such a moronic statement with a response. You should be ashamed.
L’s,
When you went through school, did they teach you math? If you’re going to suggest (wrongly) that Conservatives didn’t oppose abortions being covered in health plans because they are so profitable the onus is on YOU to prove that the amount earned was material to the insurance companies. I’ll bet you the amount earned covering abortions by insurance companies is less than 5% of their overall revenue. If all of a sudden they were not allowed to charge for/be paid for covering abortions, the affect on their profits probably wouldn’t even show up on their Income Statement which is usually shown in Thousands.
Further, you haven’t even attempted to prove that the number of abortions have been reduced.
Therefore, again, Christians never vote for pro-baby murder candidates. Any person who claims to be a Christian but voted for Obama, Pelosi or Reid demonstrated by their vote that they are not a Christian.
Democrats are just too willing to stand on the sidelines and support immoral positions of human depravity – case in point, abortion.
This, THIS, THIS!!!!!!!
Joe,
It sounds like you are well versed politically but not much spiritually. The point I was making, and you may want to reread what I said in comment #13, was that most of those who are anti-abortion want to fight hard to protect babies from being murdered but usually never turn up to go tell those saved from abortion about Jesus. If you are not going to be as evangelistic for Jesus as you are abortion, you, by your own definition, would be guilty of the blood of Christ.
“When I say to the wicked, ‘You shall surely die,’ and you give him no warning, nor speak to warn the wicked from his wicked way, to save his life, that same wicked man shall die in his iniquity; but his blood I will require at your hand. Ezekiel 3:18
My only suggestion is for you to put as much time in prayer, bible study, discipleship and evangelism as you do in politics.
Bruce,
Is it true that “most” Christian folks who are anti-abortion don’t want to see the living “saved?” What do you have to prove such a statement that comes across in my opinion a bit outrageous. How can any self-proclaimed believer believe such?
Rob
This comment stream has certainly taken an interesting turn. Sometimes I wonder why I spend a long time writing articles. I should just write a sentence like “talk about politics.”
I would love to see someone interact with the concept of the scriptural teaching on slavery and how it relates to how we should engage culture and politics.
I don’t know if this will go through. Any comment I have written that contains content about the topic seems to disappear. I’m sorry for that. If this one gets through, I would observe that there have been some good comments that deserve a response. So far, I have not been able to give one.
Rob,
To answer your question, all I can go by is my personal experience in the local churches I have been involved with over about 30 years now. The pastor asks people to come on Tuesday nights to go door to door with the gospel and the political people ask the same people to rally against abortion. My personal observation is that more turn out (about 90% more) to protest abortion than go soul winning. We want to save the babies from abortion but our lack of soul winning effort has only proven that we do not want them saved from hell. Many here may say they want the living saved but their actions say completely the opposite and they know who they are. Many SBC are Armenian in their thinking but act like hyper Calvinist. They believe in evangelism but never do it. My complaint isn’t toward any who actively evangelize, however, if they are actively telling the gospel I cannot imagine how they protest. Both actions do not mix within the believer’s conscience. One is works and one is faith.
I am pro-life, pro-heterosexual and pro-God and those points don’t need any emphasis. I do not go to any anti-abortion rallies, anti-homosexual rallies or anti-atheist rallies because that is not how I believe Christians address the “issues”. I happen to do my thing one-on-one and that is how I see Christians winning the lost, not the world. I shake hands with these protestors and their eyes are usually looking at the next person to shake hands with by the time I clasp their hand. Just as some see me a bit odd in my examples (#13) I see oddity in being political and being a Christian at the same time. Eventually, you have to answer Pilot’s question, “What is truth?”
I hope that makes sense. My day is done and will further clarify and further dialogue or questions when I get home.
My apologies, Dave. Further correspondence will remain on subject.
Don’t worry about it Bruce. You always have interesting perspectives.
Rob said: “Christians have the obligation in a democratic republic to ‘speak to’ their governments – something that Paul and the apostles simply did not have the ability to do.”
I agree that this is a key point in this discussion. I can see how the comparative opportunity we have to influence culture and society plays in, to some degree, with our corresponding responsibility to do so. From my experience, for example, the stance of evangelicals in Spain toward political involvement is generally very different from that of evangelicals in the U.S. Being a tiny minority, they do not carry a lot of weight in the world of political lobbying. Also, in Spain, the main “voice” speaking out on moral issues is the Catholic church, and it cuts against the grain, so to speak, for evangelicals in Spain to align themselves with the Catholic church, even on moral issues.
That being said, I have participated at one time in a March for Life sponsored by a wide cross-section of evangelicals in Spain. And, evangelicals have been very active in lobbying for freedom of religion and non-discrimination for religious minorities (the issues that have affected them most directly, having been discriminated against historically).
All in all, though, I think that pure biblical Christianity thrives better as a minority position in society than as a majority, or near majority.
Certainly, though, we should not isolate ourselves, and remain detached from the plight of the downtrodden and needy in society. As I argue in my post here (http://www.sbcimpact.net/2010/03/15/christ-the-faithful-suffering-servant-in-the-midst-of-culture/), we must faithfully carry out the role of servants in the midst of culture, not separate from culture, or against culture.
Though I do not follow him on open theology, nor on some of the more extreme statements (regarding pacifism, abortion, etc.) toward the end of the book, Greg Boyd, in “The Myth of a Christian Nation,” has some interesting points about influencing from below as opposed to influencing from the corridors of power. From a purely secular, human standpoint, this is counterintuitive. But, I believe the gospel itself is essentially counterintuitive. And, the influence of the gospel works more like leaven than like a sledgehammer.
Also, to a large extent, at the root of this question, lies eschatology. If our ultimate hope were in this world, I believe we would have a greater responsibility to be politically active and intentionally transformationist in our approach to culture. But, history has taught us that, when we as Christians have jumped the gun in trying to impose our values on individuals and entities that have not yet submitted voluntarily to the Lordship of Christ, the results have usually been disastrous, and counterproductive to the advance of the Kingdom of God.
Good point: “Also, to a large extent, at the root of this question, lies eschatology. If our ultimate hope were in this world, I believe we would have a greater responsibility to be politically active and intentionally transformationist in our approach to culture.”
Paul seems to go to great lengths to say that our hope is not in this world, but our treasures are in heaven.
I think there is a balance here. We have to confront evil and be a positive force in the world. However, we have to realize that it is not just about cleaning up this world.
J. Vernon McGee (in his inimitable fashion) used to say, “We are not here to clean up the pond, just to fish out of it.”
I think that probably goes too far. We do have a responsibility to be citizens and to seek to make a difference. But we must remember that our gospel responsibility comes first.
“What does it profit a man (or a church) if he gains the whole world but loses his own soul.”
I have made a comparison of Rogers comment above to a January 1977 (thirty odd years ago) Will Campbell Sermon at Duke Chapel and brought it into the intrigue surrounding Frank Page trusteeship of a Tea Party and Jim DeMint related movement; set it up for exploration in SBC Trends of Baptist Life.com
I quoted Rogers in full cause I think he has more in common with Will Campbell of 77 on this matter, than with his Dad of 79 or the current Frank Page.
And that is noteworthy indeed, it seems to me if my interpretation holds water.
Here it is brothers and sisters in Christ Jesus, the True Religion when it comes to Freedom in Christ Jesus, even in the midst of the Slavery of the American Experience; a transcendent moment rich in the Gospel itself from American Letters; EL Doctorow’s The March:
page 240:
What spring could Pearl be talking about except the Spring back in Georgia on the plantation this freedom she had lived her whole life? Every spring she was to have on this Earth would recall her to those first springs of her understanding, when for a few moments life shone on her with the beneficence and she could see there was something else above all that was going on, something above her fear and her Pap’s whip on the backs of men old enough to be her grandfathers and her mother’s misery, and the soulful singing in the white cotton, when all the whiteness seemed to bury who worked there, drown them in it, like cotton was water and they could not climb out of it–above all that, and not ruled by it, so that it was to her as a little child like the real, true Messiah saying, I’m here child, to let you know there is more than all that, as I’m showing you in these little flowers forming up everywhere for you to look at and smell and see how your pap can’t do nothing about it