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Liberty: Beck’s or Christ’s
Posted by Chris Johnson in Bible & Theology, News & Culture
Is it worth the risk? Do Christians really need to take God’s Word at its face value, or are there times we can simply ignore the truth? The cost of education comes in many forms these days. Sometimes the cost is higher than we can imagine, and sometimes the news of the cost is painful to the heart. Several weeks back, my heart sank as I learned that Glenn Beck would be giving the commencement address at Liberty University. A clash of faiths to say the least….but unfortunately, Beck’s faith was amazingly similar to God’s Gospel, ..so much so, that if you had no knowledge of his (Beck’s) faith you might actually agree with him and give applause to him when he speaks about the Lord, or Jesus, or Christ.
Let me be extremely clear. I have nothing against Glenn…in fact he is very entertaining and has produced some much needed reporting on the wasteful spending of the United States government,…as well as returning his audience to the foundations of the early American government and its Constitution. His entertaining presentations have caught the attention of many Fox cable television viewers and he has become immensely popular and unpopular at the same time. That is actually what makes him so attractive and marketable,….the love/hate tension.
But more significantly, the Apostle Paul appealed to all Christians as he wrote….
Galatians 1:6-12 I am amazed that you are so quickly deserting Him who called you by the grace of Christ, for a different gospel; (7) which is really not another; only there are some who are disturbing you and want to distort the gospel of Christ. (8) But even if we, or an angel from heaven, should preach to you a gospel contrary to what we have preached to you, he is to be accursed! (9) As we have said before, so I say again now, if any man is preaching to you a gospel contrary to what you received, he is to be accursed! (10) For am I now seeking the favor of men, or of God? Or am I striving to please men? If I were still trying to please men, I would not be a bond-servant of Christ. (11) For I would have you know, brethren, that the gospel which was preached by me is not according to man. (12) For I neither received it from man, nor was I taught it, but I received it through a revelation of Jesus Christ.
The Novice
What is most troubling in Beck’s commencement is his honesty. He admitted to everyone, from this position of authority, that “his faith” was not the same faith that some at Liberty University espoused. He commended the leaders of Liberty of their outstanding courage to ask him to speak….and for more than a myriad of reasons as he put it….he stated very plainly “My faith just being one of them”. Glenn Beck set forth very clearly… the “warning shot” ,as he endeavored to speak of “a Lord”, and someone that he knew as “a Jesus Christ”, all wrapped in “his faith”….a faith not delivered to the Saints mind you, but a faith delivered by the enemy. Glenn is not incompetent, because he clearly knew his faith to be different than those on the stage, but a stage none-the-less given over in order to commence those that stand with another Christ. My only thoughts were….Why! Why in the world allow this….surely there is some man in this world confessing a true faith that can inspire and instill truth to these young men and women. Later as I listened to the emotional address,…my heart hurt,…really hurt to see many of these naïve Christians captured by the passion of Glenn. Glenn spoke of the Lord, Jesus Christ, faith, hope, love as if he was their brother with the same Lord and Savior. But is he? Glenn told the truth at the very start ….. He clearly stated that his faith was different. How confusing for many in the audience, as they clapped and cheered at his pleas to follow Christ…. but which one? His Christ… or the Christ they think he is speaking of? Maybe it is good enough that he speaks the words like “Jesus” or “Christ” or “Lord”,..it must be alright with Liberty’s leaders as they supported him from the stage.
What a costly commencement speech it was. Not against the budget of Liberty University, but costly in the lives of the graduates entertained by a man preaching another gospel. And a gospel that sounds much like their own….and so much like it, that applause rang out. What a shame and reproach! The Apostle Paul states it more effectively…..
“if any man is preaching to you a gospel contrary to what you received, he is to be accursed! (10) For am I now seeking the favor of men, or of God?”
The leaders at Liberty University were comfortable with pleasing men, not God, on May 16,2010. Liberty’s Chancellor said….“You have been taught to strive toward the highest calling”…. The question is …. Was this even close to the highest calling? Allowing a man to espouse another gospel cannot be the highest calling; it is rather a direct and obvious disobedience to the Word of God.
Those Able To Teach
We must give praise to God that he had Jude warn us of days like May 16…..
Jude 1:3-4 Beloved, while I was making every effort to write you about our common salvation, I felt the necessity to write to you appealing that you contend earnestly for the faith which was once for all handed down to the saints. (4) For certain persons have crept in unnoticed, those who were long beforehand marked out for this condemnation, ungodly persons who turn the grace of our God into licentiousness and deny our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ.
While I also understand that Liberty University is not a church….their Leadership’s error is not exempt from the truth given to the church. There will be a tendency to try and justify these types of decisions and there are many ways to attempt that…and others may try to wiggle out of the commands of Christ since this was only a commencement speech, not a formal “preaching service” on a Sunday morning. Maybe proclaiming the truth of the gospel is less important in these types of events. That seems to be the angle of some at Roanoke… to overlook the obvious in order to please men. But again,…what is the cost when confusion is deliberately hoisted upon young minds with respect to the gospel of God?
Does Liberty want their students to understand what Jude is talking about….I hope so!
Jude 1:12-13 These are the men who are hidden reefs in your love feasts when they feast with you without fear, caring for themselves; clouds without water, carried along by winds; autumn trees without fruit, doubly dead, uprooted; (13) wild waves of the sea, casting up their own shame like foam; wandering stars, for whom the black darkness has been reserved forever.
Beck’s liberty has no fruit,…yet he is allowed to lead within the commencement love feast. He is a cloud, … an interesting and provocative one, but only a cloud without water. His tree is bear, doubly dead and uprooted….yet his fruit was graciously delivered to thousands of hungry onlookers eager to face the world. Beck’s liberty is a wandering star in comparison to Christ’s liberty. Jude calls Liberty University and its leaders to a more precise definition of the name they espouse…..
Jude 1:20-21 But you, beloved, building yourselves up on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Spirit, (21) keep yourselves in the love of God, waiting anxiously for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ to eternal life.
There is a “most holy faith”. It is a faith unlike Beck’s liberty and faith. It is a faith handed down by Christ,..yearning for the Spirit’s leading and longing for the pure love of God and His great mercy.
Let’s encourage Liberty University and its leaders to greater wisdom and real courage. The cost is too great for any students! Christ’s liberty is unique, and must not be muddled, displayed, or made to appear as another. May the leaders at Liberty University heed the words of James as he reminds them of their duty as Christ followers and preachers of the gospel!
James 1:25 But one who looks intently at the perfect law, the law of liberty, and abides by it, not having become a forgetful hearer but an effectual doer, this man will be blessed in what he does.
Blessings,
Chris
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Thank you for this. I am an LU alum and I was embarrassed and ashamed that Glenn Beck was invited. The reasons you give here are very strong and good ones, especially since he received a standing ovation.
The other factor which could be a part 2 to this story is that Liberty endorses a political system over the gospel constantly and this is the main reason why Beck was chosen to address the graduating class. When you make politics the point and not the gospel of Jesus Christ then you make foolish decisions like this.
The world needs to know that conservatism or liberalism is not the hope for America, Jesus is.
“But if serving the LORD seems undesirable to you, then choose for yourselves this day whom you will serve, whether the gods your forefathers served beyond the River, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land you are living. But as for me and my household, we will serve the LORD.” (Joshua 24:15)
“No one can serve two masters. Either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to the one and despise the other.”(Matthew 6:24)
“What agreement is there between the temple of God and idols? For we are the temple of the living God. As God has said: ‘I will live with them and walk among them, and I will be their God, and they will be my people.’ ‘Therefore come out from them and be separate, says the Lord. Touch no unclean thing, and I will receive you.’ ‘I will be a Father to you, and you will be my sons and daughters, says the Lord Almighty.’” (2 Corinthians 6:16-18)
Wake up, people of God! Conservative politics is NOT Christianity! Moral therapeutic deism is NOT Christianity! Mormonism is NOT Christianity!
Thank you, Chris, for helping to sound the alarm.
Brother Chad,
I knew I couldn’t be the only guy with a heavy heart when this news came across the wire. I can hardly imagine what you must have felt, knowing that an enemy of God was allowed to encourage those seeking to gain knowledge in the name of Liberty… so that they can serve the God that Beck himself rejects.
This is such a softball choice for any leader that may be associated with SBC, ….it’s hard to imagine any Christian leader giving sanction to such actions.
I hope the school will listen to folks like you…..since you deposited a lot of time and cash into the schools endeavors.
Blessings,
Chris
Brother David,
You are so right,…. conservative politics is “conservative politics”. Christian Liberty and Faith are not “conservative politics”.
Thank you for pointing us to the Word of God!
Blessings,
Chris
Without a doubt Conservative American Politics is not Christianity. THere are people who seem to forget a few simple facts. Christians have no business ever voting for a pro-abortion candidate. Christians have no business voting for a pro gay-rights candidate. Not once. Ever.
That does not mean that Christians always vote only for Republican’ts or that a Christian can never vote for a Dumbacrat. There are pro baby-murder ‘pubs and anti-abortion Dems.
Now, if there’s an issue, like the war in Iraq, that you feel strongly about (i.e. We had no right to “invade” that country), helping poor people (I’ve taken a vow of poverty so I’m going to take money out of YOUR pocket to give to the poor) or the environment (We have to protect Mother Earth) you have a right to feel stroungly those issues. Each and every one of those issues takes a back seat to legalized baby murder or giving gay people rights. Therefore, if a candidate is anti-abortion but pro War in Iraq, a Christian who is against the war should hold their nose and vote for the anti-abortion candidate if the only other choice is a pro-abortion candidate.
There is never, not once, ever a biblically justifiable reason to vote for a pro-baby murder pro-gay rights candidate.
Had Beck merely talked about being tomorrow’s leaders, engaging your community, and returning back to our nation’s founding principles, and had he not talked about his “faith,” would there still be an issue here? That’s a round-about way of asking, “Does a Christian school need to have a Christian commencement speaker or a Christian commencement address?
Joe-
I agree with you that abortion is murder and that engaging in homosexual sex is sin. That being said, what other disqualifiers are there for you that are mandated by Scripture? Adultery is sin. Capital punishment is also murder and is nowhere advocated in the New Testament. Stealing is sin. So is lying. Where do we draw the line on who we vote for? You draw your lines based on 2 issues. You advise us to “hold our nose” and vote for what you deem to be the lesser of two evils. I would rather vote for a pro-choice candidate who wants to end the need for abortion and is faithful to his or her spouse, than a pro-life candidate who has a legacy of infidelity and scandal. The right choice may not be as black and white of an issue as you make it out to be.
BTW before you start mudslinging and calling me names, I am an adoptee, could have been aborted, a member of AUL, an inerrantist, and a conservative evangelical. So please deal with my post and don’t try to dismiss me with an inaccurate label.
Brother David,
I am checking and re-checking what you have written before I say this.
But, I agree with your statement 100%.
Also, thank you Chris for a clearly laid out argument concerning this issue.
Blessings,
Tim
Joe,
Out of curiosity, how is it that abortion and gay rights are the litmus test of a candidate I can vote for? Is it ever okay to vote third party (who has no chance of winning) or to not vote at all as a matter of conscience?
Brother Andrew,
That is a great question, and one that seminaries and colleges/seminaries wrestle with all time. I think it really depends on what you the leaders believe is important. For instance, I was in Cambridge the other day, driving through Harvard square. Harvard is a university that has completely bought into the social gospel and now after only a couple of hundred years has difficulty teaching the truth. In fact, it would rather dispense with the truth, and obfuscate knowledge all together…..which is representative of the current character of the university.
Of course that is not to say that you can’t get an education at Harvard…. But, the cost is disproportionate to the amount of information you must abandon in its current state when you decide to dig at the truth. What happened? I mean Harvard was much the same as Liberty in its inception…..probably more clear in its mission statement.
Two things about the Beck decision. One, ….is that if you do have a known enemy of the Cross speaking to encourage your students,…then you must be prepared to dismember his statements immediately after the “speech”. In other words, the real courage is for the chancellor is to get back in the saddle and point out that Beck is not speaking about the Jesus, or Christ, or Lord, that he serves, preaches and teaches in his University, …he would be courageous to tell the students that Beck has mixed up the definitions….or at least has built a charade to encourage pluralism, where pluralism is not accepted in the Word of God.
Secondly, it would be wise of the leaders to warn Beck, that if he does intend to speak of Christ based upon his faith,….he should be prepared to be corrected immediately for the sake of the students and those being commenced in order that they know and have an opportunity to understand the truth. This would be generous to say the least for Beck and those in attendance.
The risky business though….is if you are not prepared to be courageous,…but instead lean toward a pluralistic social gospel where the names can get the applause, no matter what the meaning may be, then you are about pleasing men. So yes, any university can provide opportunities for free speech (all should),….as long as they are prepared to set the story straight for the sake of those in the audience, based in the schools charter…. Or they can eventually change their charter (like Harvard) and just become anything to anyone in an exclusive manner.
Blessings,
Chris
Thank you Brother Tim,
And I’m glad you ran all of David’s stuff through and got the 100%….
Blessings,
Chris
Brother Joe,
I guess you and Ryan may have carried over another conversation into this post…. I hope you guys get it worked out.
Blessings to both of you…
Chris
Tim,
As I wrote in another comment to David Worley a few weeks ago, I imagine we are in agreement on about 95% of what we believe (if not more). I think the nature of blogging is that we tend to write about disputed, controversial issues, because those are the issues on which we feel our influence may be most needed. But for true, authentic brothers and sisters in Christ, we should not expect to be anything but totally united on the core of the gospel. And, even though Chris’s post today may be a bit controversial or disputed for some, I am glad you agree with us on this one. At the root, I fear the core of the gospel may be at stake.
Chris-
This is not a carryover. My comment is simply in response to Joe’s and my explanation of myself is because I know how Joe fights. I want him to address the issues and not simply attempt to malign my character.
Not to carry over into another topic so I will be brief…
Ryan,
The New Testament is silent on capital punishment (with one caveat – Paul writes in Romans 13 that the state is God’s avenger, “…for it does not bear the sword for nothing, a minister of God…who brings wrath on the one who practices evil” (v 4) – the sword here is definitely an analogy to capital punishment would you not agree?). The subject of capital punishment is found in the Old Testament in multiple places – the Torah (law) which Jesus claimed that “..not one yod or tittle” would be removed for eternity. Either we proclaim the whole counsel of God or we do not. And if we do not, then what right do we have to speak in His name? Jesus in the Gospels did not speak for or against homosexuality. Do you support alternative lifestyles as well?
Chris,
Fine work as always – Liberty has lost some of it’s standing in my book with this invite. I can understand inviting controversial or political speakers to events – it is in fact a University setting (Dr. Falwell invited Ted Kennedy to speak at Liberty) but for commencement? Come on folks, give me a break!
Rob
If any one from Liberty were to speak at Brigham Young, do you think that that school would allow them to make reference to their faith? I know of a professor from another school who spoke at a conference sponsored by the Mormans who were agreed they would make no reference to their views, but they did. That professor (one of our leading Southern Baptist Conservatives) then answered them and they asked him to leave.
My view is, “You need to fear that my view will infect and affect and effect you.” That is why I would insist on a level playing field. If no one goes to Brigham Young with the same freedom, then no one from the Morman camp will have the same freedom at Liberty. The only thing that bothers me is that the freedom at Liberty is equivocal. Consider how there were some at Libery going after five point calvinists, the founders of most Baptists in America and certainly the founders of the Southern Baptist Convention with which Liberty claims some affiliation. Wonder if Dr. Mohler would be invited to speak on the Doctrines of Grace at a Liberty commencement? When we see that day, the Third Great Awakening should be right around the corner. After all, you can hardly have a great awakening without the right theology (the only theology associated with the awakenings is Sovereign Grace, and even John Wesley who introduced Arminianism stil use terminology concerning force that a calvinist like Spurgeon said he would not use). God does have a sense of humor, however.
Andrew,
As to your post #9…
When you vote for those who “have no chance to win” despite your conscience you are voting for the “winner” – and if you have thrown away your vote in behalf of a person perpetuating continual genocide and/or open sodomy, then where does that place you but in agreement with the winner? Qui tacet consentire videtur? Quo usque tandem?
Rob
Got it Ryan..
Thank you,
Chris
…….
I’ll be away from the computer for a few hours, but keep the comments rolling. The decision to allow others to lead in commencement, as Rob has brought up, carries with it another level of authority.
Blessings,
Chris
Rob, I’m glad we allow a wide range of views on topics here at IMPACT. But I don’t think we allow people to speak in tongues unless someone translates.
Its right in the Bible, dude.
Rob,
We’re in America, so use English!
I disagree with your assessment of voting third party. What do you do when the “lesser evil” candidate has no chance of winning? Is it still wrong to vote third party? If I have to compromise my values to win, I’d rather lose with my conscience intact.
Dave,
How’s this: omnia dicta fortiora si dicta Latina?
Christianity has more to do with being faithful than with winning or losing elections.
http://www.sbcimpact.net/2010/03/15/christ-the-faithful-suffering-servant-in-the-midst-of-culture/
Chris
Thanks for the article. While their are some things for which I can thank Beck, as you have noted, I cannot agree with allowing him to give the commencement address. Political alliances do not equate carrying our cross for Christ.
Actually, Chris, I find it refreshing that Glenn Beck was invited to speak. And I find it pathetically un-Christian to focus on his faith and pick it apart as being “un-Christian” – as was commented following your article. I don’t actually agree with Glenn’s politics, but I respect his right to have his point of view – as I respect yours and everyone else’s right to have an opinion, point of view, belief, etc… It took me a few lines to realize that this article wasn’t actually about anything more than picking apart the Mormon religion. That’s very un-Christ-like and heart breaking. I am quite well versed in the Mormon theology and history. It is a Christian based religion. Any arguments to the contrary are uninformed and unfounded. Do we tell the Pope that he’s not a Christian? Or Lutheran’s, etc…? No we don’t…..
C. Ruggles,
Christianity ≠ “a Christian based religion”
Christianity is a saving relationship with God the Father through Jesus Christ (God the Son), made possible by the forgiveness of sin(s) through His atoning sacrifice on the cross of Calvary, and appropriated by grace through faith alone.
C. Ruggles,
Your comment begs the question: What then, defines Christian belief? True Christian belief is not determined merely by self-identification, denomination, or church affiliation. What is at stake is the nature of the gospel itself. Paul the Apostle, in his letter to the Galatians, said, “I am amazed that you are so quickly deserting Him who called you by the grace of Christ, for a different gospel; which is really not another; only there are some who are disturbing you and want to distort the gospel of Christ. But even if we, or an angel from heaven, should preach to you a gospel contrary to what we have preached to you, he is to be accursed!” (Galatians 1:6-8).
The teachings of the Latter-Day Saints (Mormons) are actually very unChrist-like. Even antiChrist-like. They deny the truth of the gospel. Not all beliefs, religious groups, or “Christian” groups are equal. What Mormon’s believe isn’t any more compatible with the gospel than what Muslim’s believe: it would be unbiblical to affirm that either group is “Christian.”
David, I agree, and know this to be the cornerstone of the Mormon faith. Thanks.
Ruggles,
I sincerely do not have any problem with Glenn Beck speaking,….as Robin as expressed above as well. The context and purpose for which we speak does matter, especially in the case of Liberty University.
Actually, it is Christian to focus on faith. It is un-Christian to not focus on faith and inspect what has been delivered to the Saints. We must as Christian’s judge whether faith is akin to the faith delivered to the Saints in accordance with the scriptures, or if some faith is foreign to what the scriptures clearly convey.
2 Corinthians 13:5-6 Test yourselves to see if you are in the faith; examine yourselves! Or do you not recognize this about yourselves, that Jesus Christ is in you–unless indeed you fail the test? (6) But I trust that you will realize that we ourselves do not fail the test.
The point of this article is not to pick apart the Mormon religion. That is an obvious and easy task, and would actually be a good article to write some time. The point of this article is that men and women who claim the Christ of scripture as the true Christ would support and prop up an individual that denies that same Christ. Again, Beck is not denying that he has a different faith…..that is Beck’s words, not mine. I would love to spend some time with Beck and explain how the Christ of the bible differs from the Christ proclaimed by someone sincerely following the Mormon faith.
We will have to engage in the future on the clear differences in the Mormon religion compared to the faith once for all delivered to the Saints. As far as this post…. Liberty seems to have lost sight of their mission statement and charter at their University. Faith is a matter of life or death…..and is worth comparing to false teachers as Beck proclaims in his own words….stating that he knows his faith is different than the “leadership” at Liberty.
Blessings,
Chris
And who are we to decide who is a Christian or not Andrew? It is un-Christlike to stand and point fingers at others for what you perceive as their lack of faith in Christ or the gospel. You believe you have the gospel, and Catholics believe they have the gospel, and Mormon’s believe they have the true gospel. My point is that if we stopped finger pointing about which religion has a corner on being “Christians” and focused more on loving our neighbor and respecting their right to believe as they choose (this applies both politically and religiously) then we’d be a more Christ-like nation all the way across the board. The unkindness focused at Glenn Beck BECAUSE of his (Christian) beliefs is appalling, and I will take this opportunity to stand back and make sure that I, personally, am not partaking of that kind of judgmental finger pointing. I appreciate the opportunity that this forum has presented, albeit unintended, for me (all of us) to do this. It has been an interesting experience I shall not soon forget. I hope you all have a good day.
Ruggles,
You seem to miss Glenn Beck’s point and confession. He (Glenn Beck) is specifically telling the audience that his faith is not their faith. Liberty certainly agrees with the tenor of your response though. They dont’ care either…. They seem to assume, in this specific instance, it is kindler and gentler to not define faith or defend it.
Christians are called to something much different than a pluralistic mindset, in order that we call all get along. I hope you understand. Christ demonstrates this over and over in the gospels. We, like Christ, do not have to be nasty or rude,….we simply tell the truth and defend the faith as He has shown us.
Blessings,
Chris
Chris, (and this will be my last comment) I understand that Glenn said his faith was not their faith….just like a Catholic, a Protestant, etc… might have done. To turn that statement into some kind of belief in a “different” Christ or a non “Christian” mind set wasn’t very kind. I had hoped for more than that when I started reading your posts on this site. I suspect GB believes his faith is just as ‘right’ a you believe yours is. The fact that he believes in a personal relationship with God and Jesus Christ should be applauded not mocked.
Ruggles,
I truly do appreciate you weighing in on this post. You seem to have faith mixed up with desire. Faith is something that has been delivered….not something that we form to our own liking. So, it is incumbent upon you and I to look to scripture and find very clearly what was delivered. There is plenty of substance and evidence to declare the faith that was delivered. That peculiar faith is what Christians believe.
A good question to ask before we go applauding someones desire… is to know if the faith that he or she is proclaiming is the faith of scripture that has been delivered to the Saints.
There is no doubt that Glenn may argue his faith is the only way…. and I will argue that the faith that was delivered to the Saints is what Christ explained in the gospels. Just because Glenn uses Christ, God, Jesus and the other popular terms of Christian speak does no good if it is based on a different faith. That is the Apostles Paul’s point to those at Galatia. This pluralistic desire is nothing new….and it will continue, yet those that follow Christ must be on guard….as Jude has warned. I just hate to see it continue at Liberty.
Blessings,
Chris
One last thought as well Ruggles….
I have a Muslim friend that has broken down barriers in the community by conducting a Cricket Association in Nashville TN. He knows a lot about it, and is regarded as an authority in the area,…and a lot of folks like to come to see what he has to say. I would think twice about having him come and teach a group of my Christian friends about what he does. Naveed is a good friend.
But, I would not invite him to teach my group about how to follow God and the great prophet Jesus, according to his faith.
Of course, during the Cricket lesson, if he broke out into a Muslim lesson about his God and how Jesus fits into that picture. I would quickly form a defense and set the record straight then and there about what faith was delivered to the Saints,…..then Naveed and I would go to lunch or play some golf together, and I would continue to share Christ with him.
Blessings,
Chris
What is truth? Is there more than one “truth”? Can two “truths” be “true” simultaneously? Who decides what the “truth” is? Are there many roads to “truth”? Is it being judgemental in deciding what truth is or is not? As to the last one Joseph Smith did not think so. In the approved history of the LDS, when Smith asks the angel to which of the churches are right the angel replies “none of them.” This exclusionary tactic was furthered for during the majority of LDS history where in the temple orientation ceremony it was proclaimed that all other Christian churches were an abomination, and that pastors of these churches were considered “hirelings of Satan.”
Mr. Ruggles,
You have seemed to blurred the line between “social tolerance” and the quest for truth. Certainly we should love our neighbors, and harbor nothing but respect for others despite their viewpoint. But let us not be deceived. You have placed us by your rhetoric as being ill-informed if we note differences between Orthodox Christianity and the Mormonism of Joseph Smith and Brigham Young. Here are just a few differences that I see from the differences in the nature of God and Jesus Christ of both Christianity and Mormonism. Perhaps your informed view can divulge some more:
Mormonism: God was first a man who became God
Christianity: God is a infinite being who has no discernible beginning or end that could be explained by any human understanding
Mormonism: Jesus is the elder son of Elohim, born to be the Savior of the World
Christianity: Jesus is God, the incarnate Son, the Second of Three in the indescribable reality of the Triune God who willingly and temporarily set aside His divinity in order to become a man.
Purpose of Humanity (Mormonism): To become a god like our Father to populate another world
Purpose of Humanity (Christianity): To have a relationship and fellowship with God for eternity, in a glorified status yet never attaining at any time “godhood.”
Those are some of the most glaring differences between the two systems (as Chris said, we could go all day with them). How can both of these systems be true? Better yet, how can both be compatible? I can understand your choice, respect your choice, yet believe you are wrong without being judgemental. I also have a responsibility in those things I believe to be true to share with others of like mind what “truth” is. What is the problem with that? These are questions you need to answer.
Rob
Rob,
I think you mean:
“Christianity: God is an infinite being who has no discernible beginning or end that could be explained by any human understanding.”
Ruggles,
Who are we to judge? A distinction must be made. Paul calls us to distinguish between the false gospel of the devil and the true gospel of Christ. A false gospel is really no gospel at all. If you really are a Christian, I am confident that God will convict you of this as well.
Exactly Andrew – I will edit that BIG mistake.
Rob
Chris,
I went to Liberty one Spring semester in 1979. Most of what Liberty was made of had a very political air about it at the time and it seems that it hasn’t changed and probably never will. I think you said it best when you said, “There is a “most holy faith”. It is a faith unlike Beck’s liberty and faith.” The key word is HOLY faith. Mr. Beck’s faith would then be considered un-holy faith. The difference was miss-stated by Glen when he said “not the same faith”, he should have stated it correctly by saying that his faith was an unholy faith. Then the crowd would not have been so confused.
We if we do not exercise a HOLY faith daily we cannot see the imitation even when we are slapped across the face with it.
Well put.
Thank you Bruce for the comment,
I have friends that have graduated from Liberty and now young adults of my friends are graduating from Liberty. I’m not concerned that Liberty can deliver a reasonable education.
What astonished me was the decision by the leadership. This type of call is so naive that it is hard to fathom that it was even considered. It should make any Christian pause and consider the cost….unless of course you think Glenn Beck’s faith is just as valid as any other.
Blessings,
Chris
The idea of recognizing the heretical positins of Mormonism as “Christian” as in Bible believing Christians is basically nonsensical. Those who try to do so only wind up making themselves look ridiculous or worse. Only the acknowledgement of the differences and their nature will lead to real communication.
Chris,
This response is based upon your final comment regarding what I or others think of Glen’s faith is as valid as any other. By him saying that his faith is different from those in his audience that are considered Christian, it tells me that he has another kind of faith. I know no other faith than a faith that only God can give. Anything that is different than a holy faith is an unholy faith which, in all reality, is demon faith because they beleive and tremble and their faith is considered dead faith. I know what living faith is and have exercised it often. I use to have demon faith until I got saved. Therefore, we have to call a duck is a duck is a duck.
I like what Glen says about liberal thinking as it is compared to reality. Unfortunately, Glen does not declare God’s truth the way a man called by God would declare the truth of God and how the Holy Spirit would reveal the truth. Glens truth is different than God’s truth and should not be a comparison.
Brother Bruce,
You hit upon one of the key differences that Glenn would have a difficult time understanding as he adheres to a different faith….specifically, the Holy Spirit is God and reveals His truth to His children.
Good word,…thank you for the comment.
Blessings,
Chris
I wonder if people here who are criticizing Liberty and Beck for his speaking at their commencement can answer some honest questions.
#1: Can someone who attends a Mormon church be saved in-spite of the church they are apart of?
#2: Had you not known that Glenn Beck attended a Mormon church, based on the speech he gave at Liberty University ALONE would you have a problem with it? As in if it was just some random guy off the street that gave that same exact message?
Chance are, based off of what I have started to see in SBC life, most would not be able to honestly answer these questions. If you can not answer #1 in the affirmative, remind me never to support you or be near you on the missions field. If you can not answer #2 in the affirmative, please show us a specific example in what Mr Beck said in his commencement speech that makes you feel that way. You may say “He said “a different faith”, and I respond by showing that i say that all the time when dealing with arminians (I am a 5 pointer); dispensationalists (I am Historic Premil); Spiritual gifts (I oppose both extremes of cessationism and WOF groups); ect.
Furthermore I would like to add one more question.
#3: Have you made an honest attempt to share the gospel of Christ with Mr Beck if you believe he is so in error that his personal beliefs are not in line with the Gospel of God?
Surely on a blog full of some leaders in the SBC, her state conventions, local associations, and seminaries such an overture to Mr Beck would not be in vain. Personally I myself have struggled with writing a kind, respectful, but worried letter to Mr Beck and sending along with it, R.Philip Roberts book “Mormonism Unmasked”. Me, a humble seminary student, trying to evangelize to THE Radio/TV sensation Glenn Beck. So far, God has not pressed it on my heart to do that (perhaps because as much as I listen to him, when he does talk about faith, and Christ Jesus, I have not ONCE heard him speak of anything that is contrary to scripture), but surely, if some of you here feel so strongly against Glenn Beck, perhaps you should try to share the gospel to him, after all is that not what we are here to do?
Svmuschany – It is going to be very difficult for anyone to rise above the level of suspicion when you have already stated, “Chance are, based off of what I have started to see in SBC life, most would not be able to honestly answer these questions.” Of course, just as God can save anyone, including Mr. Beck, He can also open the understanding of some who may be a little critical of the intentions of others. So, I will attempt to provide my answer.
First, question #1 would be a Yes. Second, question #2 would be No. I didn’t know that Mr. Beck was Mormon. I also didn’t know that Tiger Wood was Buddhist, either, until he made the claim on public TV. Some of us simply do not know all the details about a person. When I began to read this article, I felt that a personality like Glenn Beck was inappropriate as a commencement speaker for any Christian College regardless of his personal religious beliefs. I struggle with “personalities” anyway as many “Christian Artist” have gained popularity similar to the way the world does. We are programmed to think their popularity is evidence of a deeper, closer walk with God and it is far from that. Our environment should be incased in holiness (ACTS 6:4). I will always struggle with how the church does it’s “business” today because it looks so much like the world. I had a problem with Glenn Beck before he even mentioned he had a different faith. Then he made that statement. There are two (2) kinds of faith mentioned in the Bible; Living and dead faith. It would have to be one or the other, wouldn’t it? By confessing that, he placed himself under identification, not criticism, of the word of God. He simply identified himself and this article revealed it. Had not the young minds been so politically charged, they may have heard it, too. Jesus did the same thing in His day with the Pharisees and Sadducees. We just have not been so open in today’s “Christian Marketplace” to call the right direction at the fork in the road. I’m sure Mr. Beck gave a wonderful speech. It just didn’t have the Spirit in it and that is the difference here.
Third, question #3 is No. If our paths do cross and the time is available to discuss our faith, I will be obedient to say something whether the Spirit tells me to or not because He has already told me in the Word to do that. When the Spirit prompts me to go and tell him, like Philip, I will do that, too.
Brother svmuschany,
Thank you for your comment because humility is the key to understanding this dilemma that Beck was placed into….. The Apostle Peter put it this way……
1 Peter 5:6-11 Therefore humble yourselves under the mighty hand of God, that He may exalt you at the proper time, (7) casting all your anxiety on Him, because He cares for you. (8) Be of sober spirit, be on the alert. Your adversary, the devil, prowls around like a roaring lion, seeking someone to devour. (9) But resist him, firm in your faith, knowing that the same experiences of suffering are being accomplished by your brethren who are in the world. (10) After you have suffered for a little while, the God of all grace, who called you to His eternal glory in Christ, will Himself perfect, confirm, strengthen and establish you. (11) To Him be dominion forever and ever. Amen.
Your question #1 is answered very clearly by the Apostle Paul…..
Galatians 1:9 As we have said before, so I say again now, if any man is preaching to you a gospel contrary to what you received, he is to be accursed!
You give Glenn Beck too much credit for his other gospel. He knows his gospel is not the one of scripture….it is the gospel of John Smith and other leaders of the Mormon religion. The Apostle Paul has called these men accursed, anathema, damned, not because they simply disagree with us… but because they believe something quite different concerning God. As you continue to learn about the Mormon religion as compared to the Gospel of God you will soon find a clear delineation.
By the way,…we are never saved “in spite” of the church. We are captured and saved unto Him (Christ alone). In-spite of…is a negative lure…. We are saved to the uttermost!…
Ephesians 2:3-7 Among them we too all formerly lived in the lusts of our flesh, indulging the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, even as the rest. (4) But God, being rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, (5) even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), (6) and raised us up with Him, and seated us with Him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, (7) so that in the ages to come He might show the surpassing riches of His grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus.
Ephesian 2:19-22 So then you are no longer strangers and aliens, but you are fellow citizens with the saints, and are of God’s household, (20) having been built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus Himself being the corner stone, (21) in whom the whole building, being fitted together, is growing into a holy temple in the Lord, (22) in whom you also are being built together into a dwelling of God in the Spirit.
The letter to the Ephesians does not jive well with Mormon religiosity.
Your question #2 is the basis for Jude’s rebuke and the main problem that Liberty’s leadership has brought upon themselves.
Anyone can come and woo you with charming words about Christ, The Lord, God, Love, etc. So…if you intend to lead, you must have a clue to whom is speaking to your students… especially if you care for your students. It’s not good enough nor profitable to unleash “just anything” upon unsuspecting students. The response from the audience was predictable. Every time Glenn brought up the audiences favorite words, they broke into applause. Beck knew and still knows that the words he spoke (Jesus, Christ, Lord, etc.) is glued to another faith, another gospel. In fact, he charmed the leadership by giving them compliments for being so filled with courage. What courage? To ask Glenn to speak was not courage,…it was ignorance and an act of a novice.
2 Timothy 4:1-4 I solemnly charge you in the presence of God and of Christ Jesus, who is to judge the living and the dead, and by His appearing and His kingdom: (2) preach the word; be ready in season and out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort, with great patience and instruction. (3) For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but wanting to have their ears tickled, they will accumulate for themselves teachers in accordance to their own desires, (4) and will turn away their ears from the truth and will turn aside to myths.
Mormonism is a religious myth, with the same terms (albeit different meanings) used by the Apostles. The Apostles had seen this before and give us ample warning and instruction.
Blessings,
Chris
The conversation is interesting, and reinforces something I’ve seen for awhile. Until 10-15 years ago, Mormons were happy to distinguish themselves from orthodox Christianity. They were happy to provide a clear alternative to Baptists, Methodists, etc.
But recently we have seen them change tactics. They now want to be seen as just another “christian” church. They use the same terms, and most people don’t know that they mean something entirely different when saying “god” or “christ.” Most people also don’t know about their more bizarre beliefs, seeing only bright, smiling, friendly people on TV.
Let’s face it. Liberty chose Glenn Beck because Liberty represents the marriage between evangelical Christianity and the Fox News crowd, and right now Beck is the chosen bridesmaid of that marriage.
It frightens me to think that most of my evangelical friends know more about what Hannity, O’Reilly, and Beck think than what Jesus, Peter, and Paul think.
Ted Kennedy at Liberty; Falwell at Duke and Yale’s Harold Bloom Uberalles:
Ted Kennedy spoke at Liberty at Falwell’s Invitation, and Falwell was invited to Duke at the Invitation of Dean of the Chapel Will Willimon who wrote the incident up for the Christian Century.
I invite yall to google that one up.
Harold Bloom investigated the Mormons and the Southern Baptists fifteen years ago, and found there wasn’t much difference in their gut character. Scratch Richard Land long enough and you would have a pretty good Mormon Elder as far as his realpolitik; except an argument could be made the Mormon Elder may not be as sinister in his dealings with the likes of a Karl Rove.
Liberty is an Academic Institution. The recent books by Kevin Roose and another one are interesting investigations.
As an academic institution, they should be open to dialogue with folks of other faiths.
The problem is Glenn Beck is such a shallow human being; no matter what faith tradition he comes from.
Liberty should host a panel of Robert Parham’s choosing to discuss http://www.differentbookscommonword.com
Now that would be news indeed; and though I don’t speak for Willimon, maybe reciprocity of a sort his Invitation to Falwell was not in vain.
svmuschany,
My criticism is not so much with Beck. There are millions of other individuals with other belief systems I could reference and point out where I disagree with them. If Beck was given the platform at Liberty to talk about his views, and get paid to do it, as far as I am concerned, he did nothing any normal individual would not do. And, he was even honest enough to state that he has a different “faith” than that espoused by the administration at Liberty.
And, as Chris has already mentioned, this is not a post about Mormonism, either. If we wanted to “pick on” Mormons, there are millions of others, besides Beck, who would be fair game.
My main concern is with evangelical Christians (and, apparently, institutions like Liberty) who do not make much of a distinction between biblical Christianity and conservative politics/moral therapeutic deism. It is with the mindset that says, “It doesn’t matter if you talk about the blood of Jesus. It doesn’t matter if you believe in the substitutionary atonement. It doesn’t matter if you believe in justification by grace alone through faith alone. It doesn’t matter if you accept the Bible as your supreme guide in matters of faith and practice. If you make a good presentation of why we and everyone else should support the values voters agenda, and if you talk up red-blooded American patriotism and industriousness and the need to live a moral life, you are one of us; we are all ultimately on the same side in this culture war we are engaged in. And, if you are really good at what you do, we will give you the main platform at our activities to make your presentation, instead of someone else who may not be quite so popular or entertaining, but who doesn’t hesitate to preach the stumbling-block of the exclusive gospel of the grace of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.”
In regard to sharing Christ with Beck, I am not in the habit of writing or trying to contact media personalities with whom I have no personal relationship. I, however, am not opposed to doing so, if God leads you to do it. And, I do know of efforts that have been made to share Christ with Beck. And, I do pray he comes to a knowledge of the truth, repents of his sin, believes in the sacrifice Jesus made for him at Calvary, and begins to walk in the joy of a reconciled relationship with God. However, I sincerely wonder if giving him the message (implied or otherwise) that he is already “one of us” anyway, by inviting him to speak at our public meetings, is the best way of helping him to see his need of doing this.
Brother Stephen,
Politics and pluralism do make interesting bedfellows as you have well illustrated …. yet those things do not rise to the level of sacrificing truth at the feet of academia.
Blessings,
Chris
What gets me is Liberty has a Mormon Commencement Speaker and pays him really good money (what is the amount paid a commencement speaker at a big school like Liberty?), and then we have the spectacle of the President of Liberty Seminary declaring holy war on Hyper-Calvinism and the folks who hold TULIP! And here the truth is Five pointers were the main, primary, and, indeed, almost the only founders of Baptist churches in Va (with the exception of a few General Baptists who really did not amount to much in that state).
What is even more interesting is that in Carroll Quigley’s Tragedy and Hope, he tells how the folks who supposedly run the world are pluralists and down right opposed to any who hold to determinism (read Calvinism and remember Dr. Geroge Bancroft – perhaps America’s first major historian of the 1800s – who called the USA a Calvinistic Republic). Wow! and the Calvinistic Baptists of the Separate and Regular Baptists came up with a liberal solution to dealing with some Bapists preachers in the ranks of the Separates who preached Christ had tasted death for every man and who had earned the respect of their Particular Redemption brethren by suffering with them in prisons for preaching the Gospel.
Now we have Liberty Seminary not allowing a Five Point Calvinist on the faculty, so their liberalism is not at all liberal for the thing they really fear is the theology that brings the Third Great Awakening, the one that wins the whole world and takes it and every last soul in it away from the Conspiracy that C.S. Lewis wrote about in That Hideous Strength, that is, from the Rhodes and Milner Groups of Quigley’s Tragedy and Hope, the Rothchilds and Rockefellers and Morgans, the Venetians, Rome, the Gnomes of Zurich, the Inner City of London, certain masonic and jesuitical groups, the round table groups,the Circle of Initiates, the Council of Thirty, the Committee of 300, the Bilderbergers, the Federal Reserve Banks of many nations, and et. al. And yet Liberty is aligned with the SBC, which was the brainy act and baby of the Calvinists of Southern Baptists in the early 1800s, and the SBC never had a single Arminian until well into the 1900s. Criswell and Lee, especially Lee, were Calvinists, and now Mohler (who will be right on the money as soon as he gets his eschatology thought through).
What the really bad eggs behind the scenes fear is another Sovereign Grace Great Awakening which effectively removes the masses from their manipulative powers. After all, who wants to go back to slavery, when once they have tasted real freedom and the power of it. Besides, there are all the advances in political freedom (NOT THE ACCURSED POLITICAL CORRECTNESS WHICH IS A COMMIE TECHNIQUE FOR CONTROLLING THE MASSES AND KEEPING THEM FROM THINKING THINGS THROUGH), educational, literary, scientific, industrial, financial, intellectual, social, aesthetical and artistic developments as well as in a host of other areas in life. And we are promised such possibility of such a Great Awakening as will take the whole earth for one generation and even a thousand generations, and we can perhaps find a part in the great work by pleading the promises Jonathan Edweards recorded in his Humble Attempt which got the ball rolling on launching the Great Century of Missions (witness William Cary and Luther Rice) and perhaps the Second Great Awakening as the participants in that awakening were reading and praying over the materials written in and from the First Great Awakening. Now to issue a real challenge to readers.
In I Chrons.16:15 we read of being “mindful always of his covenant; the word which he commanded to a thousand generations.” Since God is noted for not wasting His words, why would He bother to command His covenantal word to a thousand generations unless there were going to be enough years for that many generations. Take 20 yrs. per generation and that woul mean a time range of 20,000 years.
How else does one secure enough converts to measure up to the standard set in the promise of the seed to Abraham (as numerous as the stars of heaven, the sand of the seashore and the dust of the earth) as well as the statement in Revelation about the redeemed in Paradise being so numerous that no man can number them (even if he or she counted for all eternity?)? O yes, if it is only the literal statement alone that counts, why did Jonah’s prophecy not get literally fulfilled? Why wasn’t Nineveh not destroyed in exactly 40 days? Even Jonah did not expect his prophecy to be fulfilled though he wanted it desperately (see Jonah 4) Such being the case could some of the unconditional prophecies of the NT have another aim than just to be picture prophecies of end time events? Could they be for the purpose of bringing the people to their senses and to repentance? Could God have planned a better and a greater end than any believers have suspected?
Could the Gospel message really be the power of God unto salvation, and, as the young lady convert said to my friend Dr. Gene Spurgeon (who according to a family researcher is some kin to C.H.) who had won her to Christ and who wanted to know why she had responded so readily, “O, it was so wonderful that I could not resist it.” At that moment what I had said popped into his mind, “Grace is irresistible.” I asked him, “Well, have you changed your mind.” He said, “no,but I am thinking about it.” That was in 1965-66. In 2002-3, he was still thinking about it. Then by 2007 he had changed his mind and had come to agree with the young lady he had won to Christ:”It (the Gospel of the Grace of God)is so wonderful that no human would dream of resisting it or even try to do so.” Things are going to get interesting, when the theology gets preached aright and Heaven comes down and souls begin to get humbled. A thousand generations savingly converted by the Gospel alone, by gentle persuasion only and alone, by the open hand of Divine friendship and help held out in kindness.
Have you ever tried to refuse a handshake? It can be done, but it is exceedingly difficult. I suspect that when God holds ou His hand, when He opens His arms to receive sinners to His bosom, they are going to find indeed that He has 10,000 irresistible charms.
What was #49?
I also ask like Andrew…..what was #49?
If I am reading correctly, #49 was an attempt to make this into a Calvinist/non-Calvinist issue. Chris will have to correct me on this if I am wrong. But, as I read it, this post was not meant to be about Mormonism, nor was it meant to be about Calvinism. There are plenty of good places on the blogosphere to discuss both of these issues, and even here, from time to time, at SBC Impact. But, from my point of view, even though it seems I agree with Dr. Willingham regarding Liberty’s decision to invite Beck as the commencement speaker, I think his last comment was a bit out of place.
Number 49 was intended to get you all to thinking outside the box. Our rather narrow and limited perspectives on issues hinder us from seeing the big picture. Part of that is that we are trained to look at only a limited set of facts, the nature of the scientific method is the reason. What we need is a methodology more adept at handling disparate information, evidence from a wide variety of sources, facts that don’t seem to fit and which might be indicative of other explanations. Look more closely at the thought that Liberty, a bastion of biblical conservatism, should have a rank heretic as a commencement speaker, while the known (or it can be known easily be the most superficial of research and much more, of course, by serious, indepth and detailed perusals of the sources)causes of our freedom and missions came out of a view that rankles so many today. And what does an international conspiracy have to do with it? How could any one write an mention World War I and II by name in about 1878? The questions raise the legitimacy of our whole effort as ministers along with Liberty’s action that points to an 800 pound gorilla setting in the room. However, the real aim was to bring you to cry to God for that Third Great Awakening as none of us are sufficient for these things, and such a visitation is our only hope.
I agree with David….
Because it must be understood that wolves in sheep’s clothing are different than sheep that have an overt interest in some other man’s theological bias. Theological bias does not necessarily cloud true faith. Yet wolves that charade true faith will lead their audience to eternal death….because the faith that they proclaim lacks substance and evidence in a true Christ. (Hebrews 11)
-Chris
Brother Bill,
You bring up a good point in #45.
Many charlatans would rather embrace their audience and appear to be like them…..so that their message can at least be heard. When a Christian is truly informed about his or her faith though the stench of a substitute faith becomes very apparent and alarming.
Blessings,
Chris
This subject brings into the crosshairs the words sanctification, holiness, unequally yoked and double-mindedness. As Christians, every lion’s den, fiery furnace, Goliath and Promised Land should already have been prepared for. All we do then is act upon the event in obedience to God’s commands. Today’s Christian is unprepared for events as subtle as this. We are in the media, politics, popularity and success so much that when things like this are upon us we do not know how to respond. Glenn Beck is one person, but there were leaders and students who made up the majority and I don’t think there was a hint of even questioning this man’s background or stand for Christ. The church is too exposed to the world to even feel or sense the oxymoron between Glenn’s spirit and the Holy Spirit. This is the tip of the iceberg nationwide and we need to accelerate our Bible reading and prayer in the pastor’s study, the home and church-wide to make our spiritual senses as sensitive as grace allows.
By the way, Dr. James, I enjoyed reading #49. Thanks
Should anyone listen to Glenn Beck about, well, anything?
http://aboulet.com/2010/05/27/glenn-beck-is-an-idiot-dead-sea-scroll-edition/#more-2336
A little Memorial Day Baptist History Lesson on Liberty in Perspective provoked by SBC blogger on CBF and the Cooperative Progam.
My Friend William Thornton has some good links embedded and I have a sterling comment with frameworking quote from Buddy Shurden on what continues to really matter.
The Words Liberty and Freedom are strong in Baptist consciousness and no secret to most of yall I think they were prostituted in the Fundamentalist takeover of the SBC; so any notions about Glenn Back are little late and beside the point.
Thornton’s SBC Plodder:
http://sbcplodder.blogspot.com/2010/05/cooperative-program-has-some-problems.html
Brother Bill,
Interesting link about Glenn’s thoughts on the dead sea scrolls. It appears to me that Liberty has cheapened its honorary doctrate degree program. If any school yields these doctrates for provocative content, regardless of the facts…then as I have tried to state in this post, it is the students at Liberty that became the sacrificial lambs. Still…the problem with Beck’s inclusion is the non-rebutal to his mocking gospel content by Liberty’s leadership.
Brother Stephen,
I’m not sure how much Liberty has to do with the SBC these days. But I do believe that the social fundamentalist mindset is at play and alive within their ranks. It is always a sure way to gain attention. BTW,…there will always be some sort of over zealous efforts in any convention; SBC or CBF or “you name the group”.
Blessings,
Chris
Here is kinda where the LibertyU/Beck poliitcal praxis hits the wheel so to speak
http://www.religiondispatches.org/dispatches/joannabrooks/2709/who_says_the_tea_party_is_not_a_religious_movement/
It is thinking through thoughts like that of Joanna Brooks framed by, again, Harold Bloom’s great work on Mormons and Southern Baptists in the American Religion, that gives folks like Brooks and the network of Parham’s EthicsDaily, a headsup, an advanced on anything going on in the SBC; and that is one of the tragedies of the SBC takeover.
I take it I am the only person who sometimes posts on this board who has read Bloom; and that several years ago.
Would be good for all of you to challenge your thinking a little by reading Bloom, Brooks and checking in with ethicsdaily daily.
And Chris Johnson, I don’t think I necessarily disagree with you about enthusiams being bound to SBC; but I do think you underreport the entangling of the SBC with Liberty.
This is simply another example of the watered down Christianity that has been infecting our ranks for the at least the last thirty years (that’s as far back as I can remember). Even within this thread ecumenicism has reared it’s ugly head, and the vultures have begun circling looking to pick apart whatever pieces might prove themselves defenseless.
Beck represents something most of us believe in… Politically!, and he would make a great speaker at LU for a social debate or a litany of other topic.
However for him to give the commencement address at one of our top Christian universities. Is nothing less than deceit.
I had an assistant youth worker one time who would rotate with me picking up kids in the church van. She got upset over a couple of things and changed churches. She went to pick up the kids that Wednesday night before me, picked up the kids, and took them to her new church leaving the unknowing parents with the idea that she was there under my instruction. — This is the same thing that LU has done, and they will have to answer to God for this crime.
This is what happens when we allow the success that God has granted us to be translated into selfish pride and arrogance. This is the perfect example of replacing “Thus sayeth the Will of God,” for “Thus sayeth the mind of man.”
It is time for Christians to STAND. Someone asked if any would call the pope a non christian. If you wouldn’t you need to spend some time alone with God and find out what is wrong in your personal relationship with Him.
Brother Stephen,
I was unable to respond to your latest post until now….
I agree with you that there is certainly an increase of certain styles of leadership emerging at Liberty….at least it is emerging in the seminary. I’m sure there are fine men and women teaching at Liberty,..but at this time I could not recommend Liberty seminary to someone that I am discipling, …as their leadership has made an unusual choice for the person leading their Christian Proclamation and Pastoral Theology area….which reflects much of what I think you are intimating.
The SBC has some outstanding seminarians, so I hope that tradition continues and that they remain true to the scriptures.
Blessings,
Chris