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Garbage In … Garbage Out?
Posted by Geoff Baggett in Uncategorized
The biggest press from the Barack Obama presidential campaign in recent days has been the inflammatory speech of his former pastor, the Rev. Jeremiah Wright, former pastor at Trinity United Church of Christ in Chicago. People, in general, seem to have taken great issue with sermon tapes from the church in which the pastor states (among other things) that:
- The United States is institutionally racist.
- The United States government developed and unleashed the AIDS virus on people of color for the purpose of genocide.
- That former president Bill Clinton, “… did blacks like he did Monica Lewinsky.”
- That the United States brought the 9/11 attacks upon itself and that America’s “chickens had come home to roost” from its foreign policy.
To his credit, Obama has (sort of) denounced the comments and distanced himself from the former pastor, even dropping him from his symbolic spiritual leadership role on his campaign.
But I must wonder … how many similar messages, and how much similar “doctrine” has been infused into the heart and mind of Senator Obama in his 20+ years as a member of that church … under the shepherding of that pastor? Obama has proudly proclaimed this pastor as his spiritual mentor. The title of his best-selling book, The Audacity of Hope, was taken from one of his pastor’s sermons. Obviously, Rev. Wright has had a profound influence upon the senator from Illinois.
So, one can wonder, how much does his personal system of values … which he desires to bring into the Oval Office … reflect such apparent ignorance and misdirection?
And perhaps the biggest question of all … should this be an issue (the content of a candidate’s pastor’s sermons) as America’s people prepare to cast their vote for the next president of the United States? Is this a valid election issue?
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I can accept the possibility that a person attends a church that they do not totally agree with it. There ARE pressures in life that cause us to make bad choices. I’ve done it, so I KNOW it’s possible.
I just don’t trust Mr. Obama in the least. I can’t believe that he would willingly choose to remain in a church where the overwhelming mentality is that Rev. Wright is preaching truth.
This isn’t church. This is political rhetoric and doggone well should lose that church its tax free status. IMHO.
Bernard,
There is no doubt that we have all sat for sermons with which we have found much disagreement. At least I know I have … But 20 years? I just don’t think so.
I heard excerpts from Obama’s speech yesterday. He seemed to be playing his, “I just didn’t know” card. But people are wondering, and rightly so, how he could “not know” this pastor’s opinions for over 20 years. And he seemed to be painting this entire event as a racial issue … at least that’s what he spent the majority of his speech time covering yesterday. But, again, onlookers don’t quite see this as a big-picture racial issue. Instead, the issue is his own personal judgment. I’m curious how this will continue to play out in the coming weeks.
I didn’t do a very good job of finishing my comment – I was meaning to say the same thing you said. I can see some POSSIBILITIES at a certain level, but I think Obama is blowing smoke about this just like he does at a lot of other issues. In other words, my opinion is that he’s fully on board with this racist victim mentality, even the racist conspiracy theory, or he would have spoken out more strongly or even left the church at some point in the past. As a politician, he should have cut his ties to Rev. Wright if he truly disagreed with him that strongly. In other words, I don’t believe Mr. Obama at all.
Sorry to be unclear
just go to the churches website. a lot of your questions will be answered. what the pastor was preaching is the core values and beliefs of the church. how could obama not know?
and, as i’ve said on my blog, if a white candidate went to a church that had the same beliefs as obama’s church, except from a white perspective, then there’d be so much pressure on him to either a)quit the church, or b) quit the political race; that he’d do one or the other. or else, the media would say that he must have a white hood and robe in his closet…or, his church would be called a skinhead church…or, the media would mention racist a lot when talking about the white political candidate.
obama should be held to the same standard.
david
david
David,
Do you have a link to the church’s web site? I would be interested in taking a look.
http://www.tucc.org/home.htm
http://www.tucc.org/black_value_system.html
Check out #8 specifically…
Wow … interesting.
I wonder how many people in the media have read this statement…
I’m curious, would anyone here elect a man who sat in the pews of Thomas Road for the past 25 years?
Is better to blame America’s foreign policy for 9/11 or the feminists, gays and People for the American Way?
Volfan,
Your premise is false. Whites and Blacks are not different sides of the same coin. The experience of blacks in America proves that much. So, I guess you’re one of those fellas who objects to Black History month along the same grounds?
Big Daddy,
Interesting point. But this old fisherman knows an old-fashioned bait and switch when he sees one.
But since no one from Thomas Road is running, maybe we could get back on subject. Is it fair game, or not, to analyze Obama’s philosophical foundations?
I didn’t know this.
Oprah and Obama: links to a controversial Chicago church.
NewsMax
I too am concerned that Obama has been at this church for twenty years. I would leave a church in a heartbeat that was racist, even if there doctrine otherwise was spot on. I also know that politicians will say anything for a vote, it’s after the vote that the real character comes to play. I of course would not vote for Obama due to his liberal stances but this adds another concern to the mix. One of which I hope I am wrong on.
that should be their doctrine. I hate committing the big faux pas.
big daddy,
as we say down here in the south…what’s good for the goose is good for the gander.
i know a lot of “white” churches that got into big trouble with the irs for just putting out a voting sheet which showed how the senators and reps voted…they put it out during an election time. do you remember that?
i also remember some “white” churches getting into trouble with the govt., or the irs, a little while back for promoting a certain candidate in the pulpit. i cant quite remember who was running, nor exactly where these churches were, but they got into hot water over their pushing a candidate for president.
david
David,
Here’s one you’re possibly thinking of…
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East_Waynesville_Baptist_Church
Right next door to Tony Sisk and myself.
Volfan,
My comment to you was about Black History Month not the IRS. Clearly you didn’t read what I wrote…
But as to the IRS, here are three politically liberal churches/groups (one white, one black, one a denomination) that the IRS is investigating or has recently investigated:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All_Saints_Episcopal_Church_(Pasadena,_California)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Church_of_Christ
http://www.au.org/site/News2?abbr=pr&page=NewsArticle&id=9613&security=1002&news_iv_ctrl=1241
Bush’s IRS surprisingly isn’t partisan.
Now, since you went WAY off subject, I hope you’ll respond to my comment and hope others won’t dodge my original comment which is as follows:
“I’m curious, would anyone here vote for a man who sat in the pews of Thomas Road for the past 25 years?
Is it better to blame America’s foreign policy for 9/11 or the feminists, gays and People for the American Way?”
Honest, this really smacks of guilt by association. Senator Obama cannot be held responsible for remarks someone else has made. Nevertheless, twenty years under this man’s teaching and preaching brings Obama’s character under suspicion. IMO however, these are two separate issues.
I do feel BDW has a point even though he was called out of order and in lieu of possibly being called out of order myself, I want to carry it a step further. Why haven’t we spoken out against McCain who has been endorsed by John Hagee, whom I know some among our brethren consider a heretic, as well as Rod Parsley who espouses the prosperity doctrine that I know we all loathe? I won’t make a carte blanche statement like Joe Carter has and call Trinity a racist church though liberation theology does leave a lot to be desired.
I know McCain has not “sat under” either man for a period of time as Obama has “sat under” Wright, and he hasn’t been indoctrinated as the post assumes Obama has, but you must admit the cases are similar.
Should it matter? I think it is up to the individual voter.
Tony – Endorsing a candidate isn’t the same as analyzing the organizations of which the candidate is a participant. I see a HUGE difference.
Yes, it is up to the voter; it’s also a wonderful privilege that we have to discuss things we like or dislike about a candidate.
There’s not much about Senator Obama that I trust. I’m sorry if that causes anyone to dislike me
Bernard,
I know. I acknowledged that there is a difference. I don’t think that that removes that this is simply an issue of guilt by association and Obama has issued a statement and has distanced himself from his former pastor and his remarks.
Neither do I trust Obama. His pastor’s “sermon” did put him in a pickle though I think however, we should try to be fair here.
Now, Tony, I didn’t say BDW was out of order … just trying to change the subject.
Like Bernard, I don’t really see the similarities that you see. One has no control over endorsements. In the end, endorsements just mean the potential for additional voters … which every politician wants. But one does have control over which organization (i.e. church) he/she will associate with through membership. There is a huge difference between making an appearance with someone and shaking their hand and sitting under their instruction for 20 years.
I don’t think the issue is what Wright said. The issue boils down to the judgment of those who sit and absorb it, and who give allegiance (by their membership) to the published views of that church.
In the pastoral world we tend to “judge” one another by seminary attended (or not attended), professors studied under, books read, etc… I think this event is somewhat similar.
Indeed, it is up to the individual voter. That is the wonder and beauty of the United States. I guess I’m still curious as to whether nor not Christians consider this a valid issue.
I find the irony in his speeches about this vague hope for the future with no explanation about what that hope is (him?)and then his church being mostly about hate for America. His church pledges to Africa. Go and read their beliefs page.
But, to try and distance yourself from your pastor of 20 years who married you and gave you the title for your book? Come on.
I find him scarier than Hillary. At least we know what she is about. Follow his ‘votes’ in Congress. Also, think of how long he has been in national office. Where on earth did this guy come from out of nowhere? Where did he get the money to run the primary? Hmmmm? In the Illinois legislature? I don’t think so.
There is a story here if only some enterprising journalist would quit being starry eyed and check it out.
I heard something interesting this morning. The theory one of my friends has (and I tend to buy into) is that just like many politicans, Obama attended that particular church for political reasons. His churchs is big and influential, got him some needed credibility in the African American community in Chicago.
He is now paying the price, but for him to be elected in Chicago he needed that church. I dont believe that he holds to the pastors extremist views – but Obama is extremist enough with his liberal voting record to scare me to death.
On a side note – the man can give a great speech. I listened to his race relations speech – if I were a dem – I would be for Obama. He is very Reganesque his ability to communicate (another reason he scares me to death) once elected I’m afraid he would be able to pass the most liberal agenda in our history.
When the police officer arrested the black professor this year the first comment from President Obama confirms that he has listened very closly to the Rev. Jeremiah Wright (for 20 years). What a man does speaks louder than what he says. In politics, there’s nothing new under the sun.