Conflict: Generational Differences
Posted by Bowden McElroy in Uncategorized
“I don’t think he meant any harm. He’s a good man.”
These words were spoken by a pastor while describing a tense meeting with his church leadership. The words are probably true; they are also beside the point.
“I don’t think he meant any harm” makes several assumptions. First, the statement implies the pastor and his critic share a common definition of the problem. When trying to solve the same problem, I can be right and you can be wrong (or misinformed or well intended). For example, if we are traveling toward the same destination and on reaching a crossroad I want to turn right while you insist on going to the left, then one of us is right and the other is wrong. But, what if our destination is “home”: turning right would take us to my home while turning left is the way to your home. Or, what if my intention is to stop and pick up a third passenger before we arrive at our destination? The argument over which direction to travel means nothing until we know we are trying to solve the same problem.
Second, the pastor’s assessment was beside the point because every man is the hero in his own story. The pastor’s evaluation of the situation is only helpful if he first understands the church member’s perspective. How does the critic understand the problem? What assumptions is he operating from? What does he think a successful solution to the problem looks like? What is his story and in what way is he the hero? None of us can escape our culture; and each generation within our larger culture views the world in a slightly different way. Imagine a multi-faceted object with each facet representing a value we all (or nearly all) agree are good. Each person ranks those values differently. While I am well aware there are differences in each generation – individuals don’t always fit neatly into sociologist’s categories – it is helpful in managing conflict to keep in mind how different people within your church (or within the denomination) rank different values.
It is common to speak of four broad categories of adults in the U.S. today.
The Builder Generation: These are the people born prior to 1946. They are aged 61 and above. Builders experienced the Great Depression (either as an adult or a child) and WWII. They also experienced the post war boom and the idyllic 50′s. They value:
Hard work
Loyalty
Privacy
Cautiousness
Stability
Baby Boomers: Born between 1946 and 1964, Boomers are now between the ages of 43 and 61. Boomers tend to value:
Causes
Results
Independence
Quality
The Buster Generation: Born between 1965 and 1981, Busters are between the ages of 26 and 42. They tend to be:
Pragmatic
Community oriented
Rejecting of what they see as the “Me first” consumerism of the Boomers
The ‘Net Generation: The Internet Generation are those young adults born after 1981. These are people who:
Thrive on change
Have no denominational/party loyalty
Are more comfortable with digital communication than face-to-face communication.
Are somewhat jaded. Nothing shocks them; they’ve seen it all.
Let’s take a little side trip into how generational differences play out in church or denominational conflict. At lunch recently a friend was telling me about a church council meeting he attended earlier that week. He assumed everyone in the meeting was interested in being transparent and raised the question of how best to communicate the content of the meeting to the whole congregation. In return he was accused by a senior adult (the proverbial “little old lady”) of not understanding church polity and warned that chaos would follow if everyone in the church were informed of the decision making process. People needed to trust the leaders they had chosen, he was told, keeping the congregation abreast of the process as well as the final decisions made would simply lead to anarchy. My friend was so surprised he was speechless (something that doesn’t happen often).
Notice the clash of values: transparency is good, my young friend believes, so we must attempt to communicate the process as well as the outcome. The discussion and arguments that would likely ensue are worth the trouble so all can have input, instant (relatively so) communication, and the church leadership will have the information necessary to make on-the-fly adjustments (flexibility). Or the senior adult woman’s belief: maintaining the status quo will promote stability: it’s the manner in which the church is accustomed to making decisions. The people trust their lay leadership; that why they voted for them. Excessive disclosure would send the message that the leadership is floundering and needs direction: people would begin to wonder what was wrong.
Listening to the other side means validating the underlying themes: flexibility and stability are both worthy goals and aren’t necessarily mutually exclusive. Privacy and community are equally appealing; both have their place in life.
Finally, the morality of the critic is not necessarily germane to finding a solution to the problem. Good men sometimes make poor decisions. Bad men can have good ideas; even if their motivation is one of self interest.
What to do with critics? Empathy is the first step. Walk a mile in his shoes. Or, to borrow a newer aphorism, seek first to understand. Any solution you propose that leaves him being less than the hero in his own story will lead to more conflict, not less. Next, work on framing the problem in a manner that is understood by all. If you are going to disagree at least the argument will be an honest one over the best way to achieve the goal; not a frustrating, endless escalation because the two of you are trying to reach different destinations. Finally, don’t be afraid of conflict (not that the pastor I was talking with was afraid; but conflict avoidance is common among ministers). Sometimes our best attempts to reach a mutually agreed upon solution are just not meant to be; calmly holding firm to a clearly articulated position at least buys you respect.



Brother Bowden,
Your insight is enlightening to say the least. I have found myself trying to deal with a conflict of one whose age would define each of these generational differences. One thing that I have found and has been very helpful for me. An antagonist is not going to reveal him/herself until it is an absolute must. The conflict being discussed is of one with a genuine difference of opinion. These conflicts, I have found, can be handled with a inside grasp to why the difference is such a big issue.
What about the conflict that is a result of a power-play because of one, who used to be listened to by the congregation, now no longer has influence from just standing and speaking. This is the conflict that more than likely tears apart a church. I have found that an antagonist understands these generational differences and uses them to their advantage. He/she appeals to a concern that falls within the generational concern then steps back and watch the leadership chase the tails trying to resolve the conflict.
Blessings,
Tim
Bowden,
But what do we do when these generational differences/perceptions lead to something of a “breaking point?” In my previous church (where I served as Youth/Recreation Pastor), the fellowship was torn to shreds by these generational differences. MY perception was that the boomers and busters were “bending over backwards” to see things from the perspective of the builders, but the older generation seemed to have little desire to reciprocate.
I suppose it is the pragmatic buster (I was born in 1965) coming out in me … but I could not, for the life of me, understand how an older generation could cling tenaciously to stability (i.e. refusal to change) in the face of an obvious and dramatic decline in church health and (non) growth.
Which brings me to my point/question … is the multi-generational church that most of us grew up in and have always known a slowly dying or changing institution? Will we see more and more division of age groups within the church? I must confess that I see it in my church. I pastor a church that has broad appeal to boomers, busters, and the “net” generation, yet we can count our senior adults on two hands. Is what I am experiencing in my ministry an anomaly, or a sign of things to come? Are these generational differences sometimes overwhelming … and just too much to overcome in church life?
Tim,
You’ve described the “Let’s you and him fight” phenomenon. For some it’s an intentional strategy; whispering in the ear of one side or the other (or whispering different things to both sides) keeps the coals stirred and affords one the opportunity to step in later as a voice of wisdom or even peacemaker. For others it is more of an ingrained personalty style: they appear to have defined themselves by the battle and don’t appear to know how to stop fighting.
Geoff,
I think the church planters would say yes to the dying of the multi-generational church. I could be wrong – we’ll have to ask Ed Stetzer what he thinks – but it seems to me one of the characteristics of a new church plant is a drawing together of people who are of the same generation.
On the other hand, some of my biggest allies as a strategic interim were senior adults. Granted, the ones I’m thinking of were well-educated men who retired from jobs that demanded flexibility and consensus building.
Geoff,
I am seeing a generational trend in segregation of churches. While our church has grown, it has lost senior adults and added children. There is another church in town that is almost exactly the same size as ours. They are the builder / boomer church. We are the boomer / buster / next church. They bemoan the fact that they have few kids. We are almost always broke. The pastor of that church really wanted us to try to consolidate the two congregations. That pragmatic solution would probably work, if it weren’t for all the people involved. Then we’d have a strong, balalnced church. However, we’d also have a new church in town, because all the people who didn’t like what we were doing would very likely start another one. Less than 10% of the churches in our rural part of this nation are truly desegregated generationally. I think that probably in smaller communities, with less church choice, the percentage is higher. I think that in larger cities where you can find enough people from all the generations that will live beyond the flesh and walk in the Spirit it is probably much more common. Until then, we continue to labor.
Bowden,
I wonder if our labeling of the generations has done anything to help the church deal with this generational curse, or if it has simply given credence to the validity of each generation over the plan of God in Scripture. Labeling is essential if division of a group or a society is to work. It seems clear to me in Scripture that the church can only function transgenerationally. In our desire to reach the generations, and in our willingness to customize our churches, I wonder if we have reinforced the failings of each of these geneerations just so we in the organized church can survive in the short term. And, I wonder if our long-term health has been sacrificed as a result.
Cyle,
I think the descriptors are very helpful. (It is important to remember there are always exceptions, that not everyone fits neatly into demographer’s broad categories). I can remind myself that “those seniors” aren’t merely being stubborn or afraid of change. That they are in fact valuing loyalty, privacy, and hard work. This allows me to frame the problem in terms they can understand. Speaking each generation’s language helps foster understanding, a necessary and often overlooked first step in the problem-solving process, when I have both sides sitting at the same table.
my church has a wide variety of ages in it. i like that. it’s good to have the seniors and the young people and the children all together. it does cause some conflict at times…yes, but the blessings far outwiegh the bad things of having a balanced congregation.
i do think that your understanding of the different generations is true, and it is helpful to know those differences. people look at things from different perspectives.
also, i agree with cyle that in small towns and in the rural south, you will probably have more balanced congregations than in the bigger towns and cities. it’s still important to go to grandma’s church in the small towns and rural areas, and to go to church with family. in the bigger towns and cities, you dont seem to have that family pull as much….thus, people are looking more for what fits them.
good conversation….i’m liking sbc impact already.
david
David,
We have a really strange phenomenon in my rural area. There are many young adults who once attended a smaller, rural, family church in our area … but “dropped out” years ago (usually in their adolescence). Now that they are adults and having children of their own, they are seeking something … looking for some spiritual roots. Many visit their old churches, but do not see them as relevant (sadly) to their lives. They will visit Crossroads (my church) in great numbers, and apparently love the way we do church, but they will not tarry long. Why? Because they feel a disloyalty to the “old” church. And, usually, they have incredible pressure from their older family members.
So, inevitably, they tend to “drop out” and remain disengaged from the Body. Unbelievably, churched family members seem “OK” with that. Indeed, they seem to see it as something of a “victory” to keep their children and grandchildren out of “that contemporary church.”
I simply cannot, for the life of me, understand why people think they are taking some sort of spiritual “high road” by dropping out of church altogether, rather than seeking a church home that feeds them spiritually, meets their family’s needs, and gives them a place to engage and serve in ministry.
These generational differences are vexing to me. I, too, appreciate all of our generations. I adore the handful of senior adults that we have. But every single one of them has a vision to reach the unreached generations of their children and grandchildren. Every one of them functions well under our philosophy of “whatever it takes” to share the Gospel. Truly, I think that is what is so often missing among the “builders” who fill the pews in our plateaued churches in the SBC.
End of rant.
I really love this conversation and encourage people to read Less Puryear’s recent comments about small churches as they lend to the whole conversation. I’m absolutely committed to multigenerational local churches. We want grandparents teaching kids, not just younger parents teaching. We want cell groups with all ages so that all ages can congribute. I’ve found that even our worship services, which are two different styles, are attended by people of all generations. I agree with Bowden that we must help each generation understand the other. I also believe that we must not settle for niche churches. Some churches advertize themselves and market themselves for the niche. Rick Warren advocated it and we tried it, but the niche didn’t work. It was too small and left too many people out. I think we need to teach each of those groups to respond to their weaknesses with Christ-likeness.
We have to help builders take risks. We have to help them become more transparent (James 5:17) with people they trust.
We have to help Boomers recognize the danger of independence, and the joy of interdependence. We have to help them get connected for the long run, not just for the cause.
We have to help the Busters respect the Boomers and the Builders, who they often see as controlling. We have to help them see the value and need for buildings and plans of ministry.
We have to help the Next Generation recognize the value of the past and the present.
I just don’t think that the church will thrive in niche’s. I don’t think we can last divided, and it worries me that we have begun to accept the division and even cater to it. I think we will only thrive in the long run if we fight division and work toward the Biblical pattern of church and church family.
Les and his gang,
Stop talking about all this nice stuff. Say something off the wall so we can fight like bloggers are born to do.
cb
C.B.,
Thanks for providing us an example of a senior adult who doesn’t think like a builder! Who knew an older guy would be the first to call for jaded digital communication?
On a serious note, I’m sure you could provide examples of how this plays out in local churches. Any flaws in my post?
Brother Bowden,
You have scratched an itch that I have had itching for some time. First, that scenario you described as; “‘Let’s you and him fight’ phenomenon” is exactly what I have dealt with. The one pressing the issue behind the scenes always steps forward to give words of wisdom when it was their snide, behind-the-scenes remarks that began the whole conflict. How would you say is best way to approach a situation of this nature?
Also, your description to Brother David about the new church starts appearing to be mono-generational is something that I have been taking notice of. Is this something that seems to be the case with all new church plants?
Blessings,
Tim
Tim,
I can give something of an answer to your question, since I have planted a church. In church planting, most planters or planting teams follow a missiological principle of identifying a “target group.” In other words, we seek to identify an “unreached people group” in our area and reach them with the Gospel.
The sad reality is that, in most communities, the younger generations of adults are, indeed, the unreached people group. One need only look at the proliferation of senior adults in our churches to see that this is true.
These unchurched adults have difficulty identifying with the traditions and methods of the established, traditional church. So, in an effort to reach them, we utilize different methods … more hands-on ministry, missions-going above missions-giving, small groups in homes rather than Sunday School, more technology, video and visual images, worship bands, etc…
The “target group” for my church has been adults (and families / children) age 39 and under. We have been extremely successful in reaching our target. And God also enables us to reach some older adults, but not nearly as many as we reach within our target.
But, in all honesty, I would say that the majority of our churches are now more mono-generational (to the older extreme) than they would admit. The imbalance is more toward greater numbers of older adults.
I cannot help but think that the differences in values and thinking that Bowden has discussed here shed light on the increasing generational separation in our churches. But, contrary to some, I do not see it as such a bad thing. Because, after all, we all grow older. In only 6 years of existence, our age as a church has shifted slightly upward (perhaps even out of our “target” … into the lower 40′s). Time most certainly does not stand still. It is very dynamic.
I know a young man who is part of planting a university church that specifically reaches out to college students. Is that a bad thing? As long as people are being reached with the message of Jesus Christ, I don’t think so. We must reach people where they are. If the generations are, indeed, separated ideologically … we much reach them through and within that separation.
My 2 cents …
Tim,
The best way to deal with “Let’s you and him fight” is to not play the game. Ideally “you” and “him” would together confront the game player and let him know his tactics can’t separate your fellowship.
Family systems theorists talk about the need for self differentiation. Put simply (perhaps too simply) this would mean that in a church situation I know who I am in Christ and I seek only to please Him and no longer feel an obligation to please others.
I really appreciate the conversation because it is constructive and compelling. I tend to side with Cyle w/o dissing what Geoff and others are attempting. How do you implement Titus 2 in a monogenerational church? I think the way we’ve done youth ministry, children’s ministry, senior adult ministry etc has led to a homogenous approach to ecclesiology. When do older and younger generations intermix?
It’s not a bad thing in a church plant to strategize to reach those around you. What is amiss is to intentionally or subconsciously dismiss those different from you. I led a young man to Christ on the streets of Louisville working with a church plant. It’s innovative and relevant. Yet when I pointed this young ethnic to their congregation – a member of the leadership gently suggested he might feel more comfortable at another place.
The other question I have is how far does targeting go? Is there a limit? What is the implication when we say the gospel cannot cross generational lines? I’m afraid Paul would strongly differed based on the dividing wall coming down among Jews and Gentiles. Just thinking out loud ;0
I think a lot of problems are started among the “generational boundaries” when each side is viewed by the other as “static.” I find many of my more mature members as “unbending” yet this may have some to do with age rather than generational. I have had some become very concerned when we took out the organ and replaced it with the drum set (the reasoning was very pragmatic – we had no one who was willing to play the organ, yet one who was willing to play the drums) – and yet the reasoning for opposing a more contemporary approach was in itself pragmatic – the main critic remembered a time when they were in the bar and the electric guitar and the drum were playing, thus a connection with the contemporary instruments with the “old life.” And all the while we call the older folks “static” the younger folks are just as – if the church does not provide certain amenities, then they vote with their feet to find one that will – positive teaching, child care, youth ministries, contemporary music, etc., etc.
While I recognize the difference in generations, and the need to reach the younger generation for Christ where they are, I strongly believe that who builds the church is Christ, and that He gifts the church with a multitude of gifts for the glory of His kingdom. It just seems to me if we target “out” a certain generation (primarily “The Builders”) then we are missing the gifts and wisdom of the previous generation – which really is a sad thing. There has to be an approach that takes in each generation “as is” and then reaches a “happy medium” to bridge the differences of all in some respect. Are we saying that “builders” untouched by the gospel are not worthy of spending resources and time in an attempt to share with them the gospel? I believe Bowden’s approach of “empathy” is spot on – and has helped me emmensely in my ministry approach.
Rob
Brother Bowden,
I think you will agree that working this out from theory to practice is most difficult. I have seen it work to a certain extent, but not to the point of complete reconciliation.
Brother Geoff,
If the trend that you have described continues, will there come a time that you no longer are reaching your “target group”?
Blessings,
Tim
Joe,
I think you may be misunderstanding the idea of a “target group.” It is not an exclusionary principle. Think of it as a marketing principle. Toy companies target their products to children, but they have absolutely no problem when an adult buys their product … they are still reaching people and expanding their influence.
Missiologically determining a “target group” is not a process that excludes anyone. It merely recognizes that a church will “do” church and ministry in a way that will most effectively reach that group. No one is excluded. Every single church has a target group that is defined by their methodology, it’s just that most churches don’t know it, or at least realize it.
The example of your experience is an unfortunate one … but it must not be attributed to the fact that it was a new church plant. That was simply sin … a heart problem … on the part of that church and its leaders. And it was, most certainly, an anomaly in church planting. No church planter worth his beans would ever turn away anyone. As I said, my church has “targeted” young, Anglo, married adults. But we have members who are single adults, middle-age adults, and senior adults. (Indeed, our two lay-elders are seniors.) We even have an African-American member … perhaps the first cross-cultural church member in our area. Yes, we have a target, but God blesses us with people outside that target … and God provides a good mix.
Joe, I believe that there are plenty of intergenerational churches with solid Baptist ecclesiology who reject people who are not like them. I spent some of my childhood years in one … and I once saw those good Baptist deacons, cigarettes hanging out of their mouths, turn away black folk at the door. The sin of separation reaches into almost all of our churches.
I believe that we need to consider this … does not the way that most traditional SBC churches “do” church (classes in small, bland rooms, singing songs to organ music, dressing up in suits and dresses, meeting at precisely 11:00 Am on Sunday, hosting marathon/argument-filled business meetings, demonstrating a general reluctance to change and adapt to the surrounding culture, etc…) actually target a specific generation? An older generation? Are not many of our churches already functionally mono-generational since the vast majority of the youth have abandoned or are abandoning the church?
There is a vast unreached generation (or, perhaps now, two or three unreached generations) that require a change of thinking and a change of methodology if we plan to reach them.
Perhaps, to avoid mono-generational churches, we need greater numbers of “mature” Christians to step up, step out of their church comfort zones, and do “whatever it takes” to reach our lost generations. I have about ten of those senior adults in my church. I wish I had more.
Rob,
Like I stated to Tim, it’s not about “targeting out” anyone. Never! It’s about bringing those who are truly, incredibly, and in vast numbers unreached back to the center of the target. There are many of us (church planters, especially) who feel that our traditional approach to “doing church” is actually “targeting out” the younger generations. Otherwise, why else would they be so conspicuously absent from our rapidly growing number of plateaued and dying churches?
Wow! That was long … sorry, everyone. But we’ve hit on something that I am truly passionate about.
Tim,
Perhaps so. Or, like most churches, I’m sure that we will adapt our target as the church naturally ages.
Right now we are strategically working to regain our focus on reaching the generation that is younger than the majority of our adults (average age about 41). it is going to take much prayer and work, and perhaps even some change. We have found that we have home-grown many of our own “traditions” in six years.
Man, this is a tough issue that so many are struggling with. It would be wonderful if mature Christians, be they 30 or 80, would put aside their preferences to start a church that would reach immature Christians and nonChristians. I really think that’s what is supposed to happen. Unfortunately, as evidenced by our increasingly generationally segregated churches, it is not happening with any regularlity. God has already used Paul to give us the solution. I believe it’s in his discussion of personal rights versus the good of others in 1 Corinthians chapters 8 and 9. If the mature in every generation would simply live by the axiom, “For though I am free from all men, I have made myself a servant to all, that I might win the more;” then we wouldn’t be having this discussion. So, whichever generation is “in” needs to submit their rights for whichever generation is “out.” If it’s a Next Generation church, it needs to figure out how to reach Boomers & Builders. All too often it is a Builder / Boomer church that needs to decide that reaching Nexters is more important than our personal preferences. If we don’t live this way, will it ever really work? I mean, didn’t God say they would know we are His disciples because we love one another? How can I love you if I am not willing to submit myself to you?
This is great discussion and one that is needed in the SBC. I know in some ways it has devolved from the original post, but in many ways it illustrates the concluding tenet of both empathy and framing the converstation in a way that all can understand.
Stetzer addresses this sin of preference in his discussion of missional leadership. It takes a mature generation to sacrifice for the good of the next. I’ve spent my ministry in transitioning existing churches to see the value in this. It’s an exhaustive process that has left me with a passion to see the local church be as biblical and as relevant as possible. There is always a tension as Timothy George intimates between the poles of identity and adaptability. Exclusivity in the pole of identity leads to cloistered communities. Exclusivity at the pole of adaptibility creates ambiguity. I do not think it’s either/or but both/and. Identity and adaptibility.
Seniors are often accused of being resistant to change. Realistically, they are the group going through the most metamorphosis. Spouses dying, financial constraints at times, health deterioration, job retooling, and a host of other factors create massive change. They are searching for some stability in life, and they often see that value and context in church life. The harsh dichotomy often painted is the one of extremes and the either/or rather than the both/and. There are abuses on the side of identity and adaptibility that are blatant examples of sin. No leader worth his/her salt will attempt to stay in the rut of tradition and irrelevancy.
There is another component of pragmatism that often embraces every program or structure that comes down the pipe because it is relevant. This too should cause us to pause. This may be cause for another post, but let me throw out an additional little teaser. Could it be that one reason our students are dropping like pinatas is because of a constant push for adaptibility at the expense of identity?
Joe,
You asked: “Could it be that one reason our students are dropping like pinatas is because of a constant push for adaptability at the expense of identity?”
I’m not sure what you mean … Are you suggesting that we are pushing for too much change with our young people and that they identify some kind of “loss of church identity?”
If that’s the case, then I don’t think so … not even close. I have two teen-age daughters. Their lives change “at the speed of light.” They don’t just accept change – they crave it. And as far as church goes, the only lament that I ever hear from our students is the cry of “irrelevance.” They simply don’t want to “read the parts” in Sunday School or be taught on an overhead projector (or worse, on a flannel board) when they are carrying cell phones and video I-pods in their pockets and chatting on computers at home that are fully capable of launching a space shuttle.
If you are speaking of Baptist identity, then I seriously don’t think so. I have yet to run across a student(high school or college) who gives a rip about denominational identity. The para-church collegiate ministries are heavily attended and supported. My youth minister chose to support Campus Crusade during his college days because of what he perceived as the “overdone” Baptist identity of BCM (BSU) and a lack of passion and worship experiences. We are full-blown into a post-denom age, my friend, like it or not.
So, what’s the answer? I don’t know. But I do know we have to try and reach people where they are, instead of wishing and longing for them to be where we, as Baptists, “they ought to be. That is so often my struggle in the ministry.
Good discussion.
My point is we often reach them with chips and pizza but leave them with no foundation for their faith. Students may not give a rip about any identity, but there is no doubt they are searching for something to hang their hat on. I didn’t really come for a discussion on Baptist identity (even though that is a particular interest of mine), even though I disagree with your assumption about post denom. . .
Still the point is if we were making disciples of students in a local church maybe we wouldn’t be creating a culture of autonomous independence where the church is irrelevant. What do you think?
Joe,
I quite agree that the days of shallow youth ministry must end. They have gone on for far too long. Students are, indeed, looking for something much deeper. I am thankful that a great many of our student ministries are reaching them at a much deeper level.
But I’m not sure what you mean by your last statement. Help me out …
I wholeheartedly agree about student ministry and see a shift. Thank the Lord.
Let me try to illustrate what I mean with a quote.
“Baptist Doctrines are more important than most of us realize . . . . They are to the church essentially, what the backbone is to the human body. They give unity and stability; they provide sturdiness enabling us to endure the bumps or opposition, even persecution . . . .
The church which neglects to teach doctrine weakens its membership, works against its unity, invites instability in its fellowship, lessens conviction among its members and stalemates its future progress. It is impossible for us to exaggerate the importance of doctrine. This truth needs to be stressed constantly . . . ”
-James L. Sullivan, former Sunday School Board & SBC
Before people accuse me of promoting only Baptist distinctives, let me just suggest biblical distinctices should always lead to Baptist distinctives. My point is that our continual stress on adaptability at the expense of identity has led many students to see no need for the local church. One has said it makes every man’s (or woman’s) hat his church.
This discussion is going a bit off target, but in my opinion is a necessary one. I see it daily in my discussion with undergraduate philosophy students in their late teens and early twenties. Most of these folks have grown up in a world that is post-modern – thus it is a world of change without any absolutes. I had a class today which went spastic over the concept in that the majority agreed with the statement, “One should not legislate morality” until I ably pointed out that every law legislates some ethical moral value.
Modern day church planters have attempted to skirt around the fact of a God that is immutable and unchanging by appealing to the cultural milieu (that is change) without changing the gospel message. In that, I will have to observe that certain distinctives of Baptist tradition has been tweaked, and in some cases compromised. Those who are considered the repository of Baptist heritage (or part of the old cultural heritage)neither appeal to the post-modern generation, nor do they wish to change themselves to the new paradigm. They are joiners and maintainers of the status quo.
My intention is not to throw water on anyone’s parade – but to explore solutions. We often speak a different language among the generations depending upon the culture we were raised in. Where are the translators so that the church (primarily SBC churches)can use the strengths of both of these groups for his glory? Or is the cause an impossible dream?
Rob
Rob,
This is a good way to go “off target.”
Here’s your “money” quote – “Those who are considered the repository of Baptist heritage (or part of the old cultural heritage)neither appeal to the post-modern generation, nor do they wish to change themselves to the new paradigm. They are joiners and maintainers of the status quo.”
Man, did you actually say that?!!
And here is our dilemma. We do have a passionate generation of younger believers (most of them “raised” on the concept of “hands-on missions” through the 1990′s) who want to reach their peers. So they have become innovative. They have operated “outside the box.” And they are reaching people with the Gospel.
But there are many among us who would label their efforts as “invalid,” simply because they are different. More often these days I am hearing those criticisms framed within a context of “Baptist heritage” or “Baptist identity.”
It is not true that students see no need for the local church. They simply find it difficult to relate to the traditional church. Why? Because the culture of the traditional church is in a different “universe’ than their own.
So we must plant churches to reach them in their culture. Culture is not the enemy. It is not evil. It simply IS. People of different ages, geographical locations, and communities have different worldviews. Unless we realize that and seek to use culture and worldview as tools to reach people, I fear that we are headed for a continual decline … as the people who share the historical Baptist worldview pass on to be with the Lord.
Geoff,
I do not suspect we disagree
It is difficult for the post-modern generation to “join” the church with a historical tradition of 2000 years. It is equally difficult for church leaders to determine what is “cultural” and what is “a priori” eternal(besides the difficulty in communicating to a post-modern person that indeed there ARE absolutes without offending their sensibilities – the gospel is OFFENSIVE whatever culture we attempt to share with!). This difficulty can be seen in the emerging/emergent movement and the wide diversity of liberal to conservative beliefs proffered.
I believe there CAN be a fig leaf presented to our older, more experienced members and leaders to where they can help and not hinder our efforts to be relational to the up and coming generation. This blog is on the cusp of that I believe as we encourage all people of the local church (SBC and all Christians) to have this discussion here.
Rob
Good discussion. I don’t know what others think, but I do believe you can do both/and. We are missional and doctrinal. Again it’s not either/or but both/and.
.
Great discussion. It has been an interesting journey to see where this post has gone and the road(s) it has taken to get there.
Some observations from the “youth guy”. It is imperative that we find away ton bridge the generational gaps. I don’t know that will ever happen with polity and worldview, they are too different. But it can happen by relationships. There is alot of wisdom to be passed on, and we need to help broker that exchange.
Also, I do have a feat that we are building one generation churches. Churches whose target group is a specific demographic. I know several churches who main reason to start was to pacify there need for a certain worship style or to have some control. (This is NOT a reference to Geoff). They lament the old guard that were focused only on what they wanted and what they perferred and go and start a church that has the same mindest just with a different generation.
Youth are starving for relationships and we offer entertainment. They are starving for authenticity and we offer programs, they are struggling we the concept of Absolute Truth and we demonstrate scores of grey areas in how we live.
It is a fun time to be alive and ministering!
Rob,
I think you mean an olive leaf (symbolizing peace) rather than a fig leaf (covering up nakedness). Unless our older, more experienced members are naked. In which case, I am all for giving them fig leaves.
Joe Stewart,
I agree!
Joe Ball,
You wrote: “Youth are starving for relationships and we offer entertainment. They are starving for authenticity and we offer programs, they are struggling we the concept of Absolute Truth and we demonstrate scores of grey areas in how we live.”
I am continually amazed at how many bloggers have had such negative experiences with churches, or on my post today, associations. This breaks my heart. I suppose I have just been blessed to see some really good, strong, biblical churches doing a good job of evangelizing and discipling people.
In regards to your comment on one-generation churches, I see some real neat things happening between senior adults and young adults. Many of these folks are liking the same kind of church, with a high relational focus and doctrinal integrity. And both groups love old and new hymns!
Also, many of the one-gen churches of the 80′s have matured into multi-generational, multi-cultural churches (Willow Creek comes to mind). Yes, some are born out of a need or opportunity with one specific group. But many of these hit a wide target later on as they reach different people who are drawn in by their (sometimes youthful) vitality.
Yes, an olive branch would be more appropriate
Rob
From an evangelistic point of view, I believe we must do everything possible to reach people where they are at (target segments, worship styles, etc.). However, from a discipleship point of view, we must do everything we can to foster inter-generational unity. We cannot compromise at this point, consoling ourselves that at least we are reaching others that no one else is reaching. True discipleship must lead us, one way or another, toward true unity in the Body of Christ, including inter-generational unity.
Does this mean we all have to agree to sing the same songs and use the same instruments? Not necessarily. But we must recognize that those who have different tastes than us, and who meet in different ways than we do, are still part of the same Body of Christ as us. And do our best to get to know them, love them, fellowship with them, and serve them.
Pragmatically, this may end up being primarily a cross-congregational thing. But I believe it needs to happen.
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